Roswell, Paul Carusoe and are there or are there not flying saucers..ahem. or UFO's?

Doing just fine Sir Nave...Like your location in your profile..

Sorry about your Yankees but I was pretty sure this world series was going to end with the Astro's losing to the Dodgers in game 4...Well a Los Angeles boy can dream.. Go Dodgers!

Dodgers be hot but them Astros can play some ball.

I don't know how you wouldn't rather a dodger Yankees World Series. Two biggest markets in the country. Media bonanza. Would have been awesome.

Oh well, there's always next year.

These guys- just too young, too eager, swinging at garbage in the dirt all nite.

I could have won the game for them if they sent me to the plate every at bat by just standing there and doing nothing except walking around the bases.

But plate discipline in high stress situations is a skill that can be developed. Down the road these guys are the team to beat if pitching holds up.
 
I don't know how you wouldn't rather a dodger Yankees World Series. Two biggest markets in the country. Media bonanza. Would have been awesome.
.

I'm with you that Dodgers vs Yankees from so many angles would have been an epic series... In my heart of hearts though, watching the Astro's do their thing I just had a gut feeling that's who we'd be facing from the get go.

It's always a crap shoot and in this case I was right..
 
Well folks............it is December 16th 2017 and the Department of defense has released a video to the New York times where pilots are tracking a UFO ...now I qualify that they are not saying it is from outerspace but it is an aircraft that defies all capabilities and technology we know of as of today...

Pretty big deal....The New York Times...damn...

The video below shows a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. By Courtesy of U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, December 16, 2017.


The following recounts an incident in 2004 that advocates of research into U.F.O.s have said is the kind of event worthy of more investigation, and that was studied by a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s. Experts caution that earthly explanations often exist for such incidents, and that not knowing the explanation does not mean that the event has interstellar origins.

WASHINGTON — Cmdr. David Fravor and Lt. Cmdr. Jim Slaight were on a routine training mission 100 miles out into the Pacific when the radio in each of their F/A-18F Super Hornets crackled: An operations officer aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, a Navy cruiser, wanted to know if they were carrying weapons.

“Two CATM-9s,” Commander Fravor replied, referring to dummy missiles that could not be fired. He had not been expecting any hostile exchanges off the coast of San Diego that November afternoon in 2004.

Commander Fravor, in a recent interview with The New York Times, recalled what happened next. Some of it is captured in a video made public by officials with a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s.

“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.

The radio operator instructed Commander Fravor and Commander Slaight, who has given a similar account, to investigate.

The two fighter planes headed toward the objects. The Princeton alerted them as they closed in, but when they arrived at “merge plot” with the object — naval aviation parlance for being so close that the Princeton could not tell which were the objects and which were the fighter jets — neither Commander Fravor nor Commander Slaight could see anything at first. There was nothing on their radars, either.

Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.

Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.

Commander Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said.

Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.

But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.”

The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.

They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.

“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”

“We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.

By the time the two fighter jets arrived at the rendezvous point, the object had disappeared.

The fighter jets returned to the Nimitz, where everyone on the ship had learned of Commander Fravor’s encounter and was making fun of him.

Commander Fravor’s superiors did not investigate further and he went on with his career, deploying to the Persian Gulf to provide air support to ground troops during the Iraq war. But he does remember what he said that evening to a fellow pilot who asked him what he thought he had seen.

“I have no idea what I saw,” Commander Fravor replied to the pilot. “It had no plumes, wings or rotors and outran our F-18s.”

But, he added, “I want to fly one.”
 
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Anecdotes are not evidence, and even if they were true to the best of the person's recollection, memory is incredibly unreliable. Furthermore, unexplained objects with seemingly outrageous capabilities are simply that - unexplained. Extraterrestrial origin needs to be demonstrated, it cannot be the default position regarding unexplained phenomena.

It's a bit like the bronze age default - "I cannot explain this, therefore, god".

Wait a minute - people are still doing that in the 21st century.
 
I've always assumed the military has some crazy aircraft we don't know about. Think about it: They designed the SR-71 blackbird back in the late 50's. To hear the official story, they've never put anything faster into production. The military simply allowed an important capability to dissolve without a replacement? With all the $$$ we spend on our military?!? No fucking way. They've got something.

My default setting is that they have some crazy ass shit that these pilots don't know about. Either that or it was some other anomalous behavior from their equipment. Or maybe they are just full of shit.
 
To both Bubba and IBB

We have have now for the first time ever audio and video officially released by the U.S. Government that was shot by our own military basically saying WTF is that? Now I'm not saying it is necessarily extraterrestrial but I'm sure not saying it can't be either...What it is for sure is something no one in the military can explain and the mode of operation is far beyond anything mankind to date has been able to pull off. We are unable to identify or explain the source thereof. It may be man made, it may be made by something terrestrial that is superior to us, or something slipping in and out of this dimension, it could be extraterrestrial. All of these "could be's" are possible explanations...Point is, this officially released event in San Diego is a huge step forward in the U.S. government coming clean to the fact that there are unidentifiable flying aircraft being sighted and filmed by military all over the world that the brightest minds on this planet can't explain. If this was top secret stuff it is my belief the upper ups sure wouldn't have allowed it to be released .
 
I understand and encourage skepticism in stories like this one. The fact is this particular story happens to include a leading role player who is VERY credible "Dave Fravor" is no slouch and neither are the other 7 eye witness's of this particular event. I am not sure when it was written but I assume in the last few days. HERE is a story from a military aviation web site called Fightersweep.com the author is a long time friend of Dave's that provides some insight and info for those of us who "Don't Know Dave" or all of the story that might make a skeptic less likely to pass him off as a crackpot or somebody who was "mistaken"...As it says in the article "It’s easy to get a sense of who and what he is because his squadron was featured on the 10-part miniseries Carrier that aired on PBS." He was the commanding officer of VFA-41...Nothing to do with this UFO story so it lets you see him for who he was before they let the cat out of the bag....

Bottom line this weren't no swamp gas .... or anything the likes that any of the witness's had ever seen

It's a really a good article I encourage you to check it out
 
Yep,

They're going to let us in on the big secret over the next few years.....

 
I don't know what the big deal is, so far. Of course countries have secret programs to scour their skies for enemy weapons from other countries. It's a no-brainer. And, just as there are natural effects caused by light and weather conditions, so there are man-made effects being developed and tested across the globe. Of course it is secret and of course you would have no way of knowing what "the brightest minds" in the world are able to explain.
 
I don't know what the big deal is, so far. Of course countries have secret programs to scour their skies for enemy weapons from other countries. It's a no-brainer. And, just as there are natural effects caused by light and weather conditions, so there are man-made effects being developed and tested across the globe. Of course it is secret and of course you would have no way of knowing what "the brightest minds" in the world are able to explain.

Yo Kickingtone you didn't read the article or watch any of the videos did you? It's a no brainer...that craft beyond earthly mankinds capabilities have been are continuing to be observed and tracked by the highest tech equipment and most credible military sources. As Luis Elizondo who oversaw the top secret 22 million dollar U.S. Department of defense program UFO program just stated last week“In my opinion, if this was a court of law, we have reached the point of ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. I hate to use the term UFO, but that’s what we’re looking at,” Mr Elizondo told The Telegraph.

“I think it’s pretty clear this is not us, and it’s not anyone else, so one has to ask the question where they’re from.”

Mr Elizondo told the newspaper there were geographical “hot spots” – sometimes around nuclear facilities and power plants – which emerged during AATIP’s investigations, as well as common factors between UFO sightings.

He said: “It was enough where we began to see trends and similarities in incidents. There were very distinct observables. Extreme manoeuvrability, hypersonic velocity without a sonic boom, speeds of 7,000mph to 8,000mph, no flight surfaces on the objects. A lot of this is backed with radar signal data, gun camera footage from aircraft, multiple witnesses.

“There was never any display of hostility but the way they manoeuvred, in ways no one else in the world had, you have to be conscious something could happen.”

It comes after secret footage released by the Department of Defence (DoD) showed US fighter jet pilots as they tracked an unidentified aerial object gliding above the Pacific Ocean in 2004. The object had been detected appearing suddenly at 80,000 feet by the USS Princeton, a naval cruiser, which had been tracking mysterious aircraft for two weeks.

Commander David Fravor told The New York Times the object was about 40ft long, had no plumes, wings or rotors, and outpaced their F-18s. It was big enough to churn the sea 50ft below it, he said."
 
Yo Kickingtone you didn't read the article or watch any of the videos did you?

Guilty m'lord (dunno if you have this expression in the US).

I have watched many vids over the years, though.

It's a no brainer...

Did you read my post, and what I said was a no-brainer?

But moving on to interpretations of the various observations...

that craft beyond earthly mankinds capabilities have been are continuing to be observed and tracked by the highest tech equipment and most credible military sources. As Luis Elizondo who oversaw the top secret 22 million dollar U.S. Department of defense program UFO program just stated last week“In my opinion, if this was a court of law, we have reached the point of ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. I hate to use the term UFO, but that’s what we’re looking at,” Mr Elizondo told The Telegraph.

Sorry, Mr Elizondo doesn't know what mankind's earthly capabilities are. He may have a good idea of what the capabilities of the US are, but the US isn't "mankind" or "the Earth".

“I think it’s pretty clear this is not us, and it’s not anyone else, so one has to ask the question where they’re from.”

Mr Elizondo told the newspaper there were geographical “hot spots” – sometimes around nuclear facilities and power plants – which emerged during AATIP’s investigations, as well as common factors between UFO sightings.

He said: “It was enough where we began to see trends and similarities in incidents. There were very distinct observables. Extreme manoeuvrability, hypersonic velocity without a sonic boom, speeds of 7,000mph to 8,000mph, no flight surfaces on the objects. A lot of this is backed with radar signal data, gun camera footage from aircraft, multiple witnesses.

“There was never any display of hostility but the way they manoeuvred, in ways no one else in the world had, you have to be conscious something could happen.”

Again, he doesn't know that it is "clearly not anyone else". And the speed and number of witness is irrelevant to the point I made, which is that other countries may, for example, be developing technology and systems designed to fool human witnesses and technological detectors.

It comes after secret footage released by the Department of Defence (DoD) showed US fighter jet pilots as they tracked an unidentified aerial object gliding above the Pacific Ocean in 2004. The object had been detected appearing suddenly at 80,000 feet by the USS Princeton, a naval cruiser, which had been tracking mysterious aircraft for two weeks.

Commander David Fravor told The New York Times the object was about 40ft long, had no plumes, wings or rotors, and outpaced their F-18s. It was big enough to churn the sea 50ft below it, he said."

And "credible military sources" are a reflection only of your personal trust. Such military sources are not there to be transparent. It is obvious to me that they would follow an end-justifies-the-means ethic, and they have various motives that have nothing to do with transparency.

Notwithstanding that, there is nothing you have quoted that is beyond mankind's capability "beyond reasonable doubt",
 
Guilty m'lord (dunno if you have this expression in the US).

I have watched many vids over the years, though.

Without watching the videos, reading the articles, making comments that are supposed to relate to them is of no intrinsic value. You're just stating your personal preconceived opinion on the subject of UFO's in general.

I've been following this silliness for almost 50 years...and the likes of what have been put out over the last two weeks..."U.S. military video releases" and the thoughts shared by the people involved in these matters is unprecedented. It is a really big deal...Sadly most people are dumbed down numb from all the BS that has been shoved down their faces over the last 70 years. Oh boy another tin foil hat story....This is so much more than that.

The three super powers China , Russia and The United States all have some zippy zoomy shit...but the craft these VERY credible sources around the world have witnessed are beyond the scope of anything we can even dream of, yet alone create at this place and space in time...craft maneuvering at 7,000 to 8,000 mph and pulling of 90 degree turns almost instantly....mmmmm probably not something we super eathlings can pull off...
 
Without watching the videos, reading the articles, making comments that are supposed to relate to them is of no intrinsic value. You're just stating your personal preconceived opinion on the subject of UFO's in general.

I've read your "killer points" above that nail the "unprecedented nature" of the new evidence. That is enough to tell me that there is nothing new. You've simply ignored the reasons I gave. Fair enough, that is your prerogative, but it doesn't make your point any more compelling for me.

I have explained. What you call a "VERY credible source", I don't. I go on facts, not people and titles.

I've been following this silliness for almost 50 years...and the likes of what have been put out over the last two weeks..."U.S. military video releases" and the thoughts shared by the people involved in these matters is unprecedented. It is a really big deal...Sadly most people are dumbed down numb from all the BS that has been shoved down their faces over the last 70 years. Oh boy another tin foil hat story....This is so much more than that.

The three super powers China , Russia and The United States all have some zippy zoomy shit...but the craft these VERY credible sources around the world have witnessed are beyond the scope of anything we can even dream of, yet alone create at this place and space in time...craft maneuvering at 7,000 to 8,000 mph and pulling of 90 degree turns almost instantly....mmmmm probably not something we super eathlings can pull off...

lol, it's funny that you are talking about "dumbed down". Sorry, but I reckon that you are believing what you WANT to believe. Quite exciting, isn't it? Adds a bit of mystery and spice to mundane life?

Putting "VERY" in capitals does nothing to make the sources credible. All that is at work there is your willingness to believe.

As for the speeds and manoeuvring, I have explained already. Nothing extraordinary implied.
 
As for the speeds and manoeuvring, I have explained already. Nothing extraordinary implied.

Shit that explains everything ..... you have better intel than the U.S. military :laughings: Sorry I didn't realize who I was dealing with. My bad.
 
Shit that explains everything ..... you have better intel than the U.S. military :laughings: Sorry I didn't realize who I was dealing with. My bad.

Shame. It would be an interesting topic but for the fact that you are coming from the angle of a *cough* "ufo ethusiast" ...

If you do get a moment to sober up, answer the question of why something that happened in 2004 has only now become the "irrefutable evidence" you think it is. Of course you are going to avoid or evade the question.

In particular, I want you to tell me what has changed about it between 2004 and now.
 
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