Music Schools are Expensive (Rant)

AlexBoyKing

New member
This sucks, guys.

Why does music production always have to break the bank?

For instance, I just enrolled my child in an 8 month long course. I ended up paying 11 thousand dollars!

He would be able to get a bachelor’s degree at a university for less than that (From a respected University as well).

What’s more, these music programs don’t even last that long.

How can you learn everything about producing music in 8 months?

It’s ridiculous.
 
You know what P. T. Barnum said.... :)

You could get as much music production from the internet as any of those courses....maybe more...you just have to sift through a lot of nonsense, but there's a ton of music production info...for free.

Not sure how old your child is...but if anything, work on just getting him an internship at a radio station, TV station or if possible, a local recording studio (even a small, decent one)...and then they learn by doing.
 
My daughter's BEd was around $25000. Starting wage for a full time teacher is ~50,000.
Pays for itself in 2 years. As long as people keep reproducing, she should be employed.
 
My daughter's BEd was around $25000. Starting wage for a full time teacher is ~50,000.
Pays for itself in 2 years. As long as people keep reproducing, she should be employed.
Don't understand the logic here. The value of her education should be measured against what she could have made without the education. If she could have earned $40k without her degree, then it would take 5 years to recoup the investment. And that's not counting the four years she earned nothing while pursuing her degree,

If she had earned $40k for those 4 years, then the payback is around 19 years.

Not knocking education, but you can't just look at the cost of education versus earnings. You have to look at the alternatives as well.

And that assumes she couldn't have made the same $50k without the education. My brother makes $600k a year with just a high school diploma.
 
You just knocked her education, or am I missing something???
How old is your brother, and what field is he in? Years of experience? Position? Owner or shareholder?
I'm happy for him. You sound a bit envious. Or am I missing something???
 
Officially, the two provinces specify $58,500 in Alberta and $47,539 in B.C. as the general starting wage and those numbers jump to $92,300 and $74,353 after 10 years. Historically, Alberta educators have always been paid more than those in any other province.Mar 10, 2015
She lives in Alberta. Minimum wage is 32,000 if you work full time 40 hours a week once minimum wage hits $15 next year.
 
You just knocked her education, or am I missing something???
How old is your brother, and what field is he in? Years of experience? Position? Owner or shareholder?
I'm happy for him. You sound a bit envious. Or am I missing something???

I don't think he knocked anything. You gave a very general broad simplistic statistic. He just looked at the wider veiw, stating other factors involved.

You have every reason to be proud of your daughter, but I think you took his post as a bit of a personal attack.

I'm on the outside with no dog in the hunt, and didn't see it as that.

Time to lighten up?
:D
 
Don't understand the logic here. The value of her education should be measured against what she could have made without the education. If she could have earned $40k without her degree, then it would take 5 years to recoup the investment. And that's not counting the four years she earned nothing while pursuing her degree,
.

Well, there is no logic in what you said, either. You can't reference an undefinable parameter to measure performance. No one knows how much she would have made if she didn't have a college degree; she has a college degree. All Ido said was it pays for itself in 2 years. Simple math. In reality, there is no monetary value to a good education. It might have a fixed cost, but the value derived is not a dollar sign.

As for the music school... i know two guys who graduated from full sail. One went back to school to get a nursing degree, the other works at Apple as a support specialist for their apps. It's not a well-paid gig.
 
Well, there is no logic in what you said, either. You can't reference an undefinable parameter to measure performance. No one knows how much she would have made if she didn't have a college degree; she has a college degree. All Ido said was it pays for itself in 2 years. Simple math. In reality, there is no monetary value to a good education. It might have a fixed cost, but the value derived is not a dollar sign.

As for the music school... i know two guys who graduated from full sail. One went back to school to get a nursing degree, the other works at Apple as a support specialist for their apps. It's not a well-paid gig.

Yes I took it as an affront to my post regarding her BEd degree. Sorry not sorry.
She worked very hard to get her degree and I'm very proud of her efforts and will enjoy watching her walk the stage to pick up her diploma in June.

A degree in the eyes of many companies indicates the person is willing to put in the extra effort to improve/learn, regardless of whether the degree is related.
We develop software at our firm and have several employees with Commerce/BA etc non-computer degrees because we recognize their abilities and strengths.
The world has changed, and you can gripe all you want that a degree means nothing, but in reality it is becoming more and more prevalent in today's employment market.
And to avoid the "Trades" argument, I'm speaking mainly in the areas outside of the traditional trades realm whether you call it white collar or whatever.

She may not teach for her whole working life, but that piece of paper will be beneficial regardless.

YMMV
 
The best thing I got out of my degree was that I met this guy while doing an internship for one of the classes, and we kinda struck a good rapport...so he suggested I come work at the same place he was working...and that he would let me know when/if something opened up.

About 8 months later he called me and said there was a job opening...and I took it...and I'm now finishing up my 21st year there.

Did my degree actually help me get the job...?...mmm...not directly. I mean, I wasn't competing against 5 other guys also with degrees.
It was mainly my connection with him, which put me in first place for the job.
If I wasn't going to classes for the degree...I wouldn't have chosen to do the course internship....and I wouldn't have met him...and wouldn't have gotten the job. :)

College studies are good for learning more about being an adult and getting out of that high-school mentality... and making more serious life connections that could lead to better things down the road...but there are only some degrees that will guarantee a good job waiting when you get that piece of paper.

The real problem I have with degrees is how many people remain just as stupid after getting one as they were before they got it.
Too many courses/degrees only require that you are good at studying for exams and producing the course requirements...but often don't actually make people smarter/better at anything.
 
As an ex-music teacher in 16-20yr old education, it's great to get people qualifying, but assuming the North American situation is like here, qualifying and getting jobs is not a problem, it's that the new graduates do a couple of years and then huge numbers give it up. I left my nice well paid college job in 2004 and breathed a sigh of relief. A truly awful, soul destroying job, with crazy pressure to achieve results, poor funding, and people to teach who were simply not up to it! I remember doing an audition for a music student, and writing after he had left in big red pen NOT A SNOWBALLS CHANCE!!! First day of term - there he was - apparently numbers were low so they took him. He was too lazy to bring in his own guitar. He couldn't tune it. Could not play anything at all, could not read music, not even tab, and as for the Grade 5 Music Theory requirement? Had no idea. He sunk without trace not because he was poor, but because he refused to play anything that wasn't his own chosen style - grunge metal. We had Punk, rock, Jazz, old rock 'n' roll, classical and folk bands all on the go, with people swapping roles, spending time learning how to record all these wild style - but not him!

Quite a few of my old students became teachers, very few are still doing it at 30! I still do some supply teaching if things are quiet. The phone rings, and I travel to a school. I have given up on performing arts and music - my real subjects volunteering for everything else. The standard of UK music education is dire. I simply hate teaching. I'd rather play in a band at a dive, with a lousy crowd who don't want to even listen than waste time in a class.

I really hope your daughter loves teaching - to be honest, she should, but all the other stuff conspires against new teachers, demoralises them and they leave. Education is political. schools become centres of excellence, get extra finding from Government, then politics changes focus, and the funding vanishes, courses get slashed and replaced, and the teachers move on.

Parents hate teachers. Head Teachers hate teachers. Government hates teachers - the public in general think they work 8-4 every day, have weeks and weeks of holiday, and get very well paid. None of which is true any more. So no sympathy and no support. My own niece became a teacher, and was very good at it. Two years later, she's given it up, fed up with going to bed at midnight every day. Endless paperwork and Government inspections. Criticism from management for doing things properly. Exactly what I found twelve years ago. Perhaps the US situation is better? I doubt it to be honest. I'm self-employed, earning less than I did in 2004 and much, much, happier!
 
Yes I took it as an affront to my post regarding her BEd degree.

I didn't see it that way.

Dachay just pointed out that if you're counting costs, don't forget the most substantial cost.
If you could give me $25k or four years I'd take the four years...and I'm not even old. ;)

I can see how 'my bro makes X' might seem to challenge education but I took as degree or no degree, there would be a salary in the equation.
 
Parents hate teachers. Head Teachers hate teachers. Government hates teachers - the public in general think they work 8-4 every day, have weeks and weeks of holiday, and get very well paid. None of which is true any more. So no sympathy and no support. My own niece became a teacher, and was very good at it. Two years later, she's given it up, fed up with going to bed at midnight every day. Endless paperwork and Government inspections. Criticism from management for doing things properly. Exactly what I found twelve years ago. Perhaps the US situation is better? I doubt it to be honest. I'm self-employed, earning less than I did in 2004 and much, much, happier!

Wow, that is so different than my perspective. While I can't speak for the rest of the US, we love our teachers. They get a lot of support from the school administration and from the community. Teachers don't get paid great, but it's a liveable wage. There are several teachers in our neighborhood and they all love it.

We don't have the best school system in the country, but it's pretty good.
 
Did Mick Jagger follow an 11 thousand dollars course? Frank sinatra? Angus Young? Elvis? Jimi Hendrix? Bob Dylan? :D
 
You just knocked her education, or am I missing something???
How old is your brother, and what field is he in? Years of experience? Position? Owner or shareholder?
I'm happy for him. You sound a bit envious. Or am I missing something???
I wasn't knocking your daughter, her education, or even education in general.

I have a BA degree and was the first person in my entire family to attend college, my son has a BA, and my daughter has her Masters and is a teacher. That should give you some idea of my perspective on education.

My point was that you can't simply say an education that cost $100k pays itself back as soon as you graduate and earn $100k. That logic assumes you would have earned nothing otherwise. As others have mentioned, the payback is much more than financial, but in strictly financial terms the payback is the differential in earnings. And you also need to factor the loss of earnings while you are attending school.

You have every right to proud of your daughter, but why would I be envious. :confused:

And I misspoke when I said my brother only had a high school diploma. Actually he never even finished high school. I had forgotten he dropped out. :)
 
Looks like the UK system is plainly on it's own - a bit of a wreck. Colleges call students "units of funding" and chop anything that won't make decent profit. I'm not political at all, but none of our Governments have really helped education for years. Today they have announced a 20% tax on the fees parents pay for private education, rather than that provided by the state. Sums it up. If teachers tell the kids off, the parents are up to the school complaining. If children are taken out of school, for something like a holiday, the parents are fined. Today a parent lost in our supreme court because he challenged the Government. Holidays that are booked in the common national holiday dates for schools can be double or even more than the week before - so parents started taking the kids out of school because the prices were cheaper - this has today been stopped!

The actual qualification people get in their early 20s here is really a gatekeeper. Many jobs do not need a degree - but as most people have them, even low paid jobs seem to ask for one. NOT having one here is a 'label' - and can be a kind of stigma - unless you are one of the few who got stuck in at 18, didn't go to university and got into a niche workplace. Here, a Masters Degree is the new Batchelors degree from twenty years ago.

My nephew is in the States, spending one year at one of your universities and loves it. Your system does seem to be better. Our unis can charge up to $11,000 a year. Most students take a Government loan to cover this, and this gets paid back out of their pay once they are earning.
 
The real problem I have with degrees is how many people remain just as stupid after getting one as they were before they got it.
Too many courses/degrees only require that you are good at studying for exams and producing the course requirements...but often don't actually make people smarter/better at anything.

I have worked with and/or support people who quantify this statement.
 
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