Delays/reverbs/compressor/Eq before or after the mixer?

Smashor

New member
Hi there! I've got a question for you guys! As far as i understand the professional way to connect the effects (especially reverbs/delays) is to place them in the "aux send" of the mixer after the signals already passed the pre (exception for the compressor), usually the effects designed for this use are sold in a rack format like the lexicons, alesis etc and have 1/4 jack line inputs because that's that's usually the kind of connection that comes out of the "aux send" of the mixer. All good so far, BUT.

BUT what happened is that all the new effects from boss, tc helicon, digitech etc... seem to be designed to be placed right after the mic and before the mixer and my question is: "Would i loose sound quality if i use one of those with reverbs/delays etc.. before the mixer? Isn't that the wrong place for an ambience effect?!"

I was in particularly looking at the reverb/delay Boss Ve1 which only input is an XLR mic with mic sensitivity settings, phantom power etc.. which makes you think they want you to place it right after the microphone and not in the "aux send" of the mixer like i was taught to normally do with ambience effects. I'm confused, help :P

boss_ve-1.jpg
 
It really depends what you are doing. That thing in the picture has a mic preamp built into it, so the effects are after the preamp. If you decide to come out of that into a mixer, it won't hurt anything.

The reason you use an aux send for delay effects isn't for better quality, it's for better control. It also allows you to hear reverb in your headphones and still record a dry signal. That is something that I don't think you will be able to accomplish with the Boss. It is obviously for live use, but having effects at that point in the chain means that you will get effects in the monitors, which can cause feedback.
 
Those devices with mic level I/O are designed primarily for live use to enable the vocalist to control the effect independently of the sound person. The only studio application I see is if the singer actively modifies settings as part of the performance.
 
Thanks for the answers! Well i was more concerned about the live use because for the recording i add the effects in the DAW. As long as the sound quality is not compromised i'm cool with it! Just one thing...you said that the effect has got inside a little preamp...so when you enter in the mixer do you actually bypass the mixer's preamp? I completely get what you're saying about giving more control to the sound guy, but well i just don't feel like carrying around racks if you know what i mean :P The new effects are way more practicle to carry around and use so i'll guess i'll go with that and see what happens!
 
Why would they design them make you bypass the mic preamp at the board? That would be a pain. I'm sure they just pass the mic signal through at the same level it came in at, but with the effect added.

If you're doing something very specific with the effect then it makes sense to have the control. If it's just for generic reverbs and delays let the sound person do it. They typically have the gear and they definitely have a better perspective on how it sounds to the audience. Plus, if you add the effect yourself then the sound person can't do things like adjust the wet/dry balance or send a dry version to the monitors. Vocal effects should be done at the mixer unless they're really "special".
 
It probably does output a mic level.signal, so it can interface with a mixer in a live setting.

If you want to use it because you don't trust the sound guy, it's probably not worth the hassle. When you are performing, you aren't in a good position to know how the mix sounds to the audience.

If you are using it because you have very specific effects at very specific times, then the compromise is worth it.

But realize that some effects will cause feedback in the monitors. So the sound guy will have to turn you down in the monitors if that happens.
 
Mmmmh actually a lot of these thing are true. But don't know if i can rely on the venue having these effects always in the mixer and a good sound person available...i mean a lot of small venues/pubs don't even have a PA ehehehe.
I don't have to do any "special" use of the effect, i just wanna have the reverb during the performance, beeing able to turn it off when i have to talk between songs, have different kinds of reverbs that i know that would suite the kind of song that i'm about of perform (a fast country song doesn't have the same reverb as a ballad for instance) and be able to hit the doubling effect with strong echoes to build up harmonies (with the help of a looper). I'm not sure if i can get a sound person to do this unless they are familiar with the music i perform. Anyway, if you would have to recommend a reverb/delay to place after the mixer what would you go for? The budget is roughly 150-300 euros Cheers!
 
You aren't doing anything strange, any rack mount multi-effects unit will work in the usual way as an aux send on the mixer.

If you get one, you would still need to hire your own sound guy that knows your songs and what effect goes where.

This boss unit will work for what you want. But realize that you are taking control out of the sound guy's hands. If you hit the button and start to feed back, don't look at him as if he is the ass hole that doesn't know what he's doing.

As a sound guy, I hate these things. The person who sets up the effects can't set it up in context. Every time the effect changes, the vocal changes how it sits in the mix. Since I have no idea when that's going to happen, I feel like I'm mixing a moving target.
 
In a small venue your priority should be hearing yourself in the monitors, being heard in the audience and putting on a good performance. People won't notice if the reverb isn't exactly the right kind but they will notice if it's too much, causing feedback or if you spend time fiddling with your gear between songs.
 
Ahahahaha no worries, i get the bigger pictures and its risks now, i won't blame anyone promised :P Also each place has got its own acoustic and natural reverbs so it makes sense that your settings prepared in a certain room might not be balanced live or in a different PA, but the thing is at the moment i can't afford to have my own sound guy to tour with me so to make certain things happen in the song i need some sort of pedal/control on stage with different presets.
I guess the solution is to find a compromise for now.

Would it be better with an effect like the "tc helicon voice live 2/3"? Those ones have 2 separeted outputs for dry and wet vocals, so i get to save my presets and choose which effect to trigger during the song and the sound person gets to choose the percentage in the mix between dry and wet so if the shit hits the fan worse case scenario he has got the control to turn down the wet, right?

Another option maybe is to get some effect with an antifeedback feature like the "tc helicon voice correct xt" which also adds compression, eq, and de-esser and praying that it would work ehehehe :-)
 
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