All you band players:

[jasonbmerrill]

....and I'm sorry, no matter what you do with someone else's song....
....it's still someone elses creation, and not your own.

all along the watchtower?
the man who sold the world?
Sleepwalking?

[jasonbmerrill]

There is a difference between reinventing your own creation, and simply not being able to play someone else's song correctly.

Just about every cover band member says the same thing "people like when we put our own flair on it". However, given the hundreds of people I've talked to in bars they always judge a cover band on "If I can close my eyes, and not be able to tell it's not the original artist...then they are a good cover band".

It's one thing for an original band to put a twist on a cover. However, when it's a cover band....people expect to hear a reproduction of the original recording, and will judge how good a cover band is on that.

That is one reason it can cost up to $150 to see the original artist do the material, but only a $5 cover to see someone copy them.

Bob suffers delusions of grandeur. That is why he is so over sensitive about the issue, and sees my point of view as an attack, and why he became such an ass (well that and it seems to be in his nature.) If he would change his messy diaper, CAREFULLY re-read this thread, he would understand that since he has written original material...then he would be considered an artist. Instead he acted like someone took his rattle away. I can only hope he reads his music more carefully, as it might make him a better cover player.

Again, this is NOT taking anything away from the skill, and musicianship of anyone that plays in a cover band. I've seen some of the best musicians I've ever encountered playing in cover bands. However, some can not write, and have never written one original lick. Until they do.....they are not artist. They are either good, or bad copy machines.

What it really boils down to is...
...if you are happy doing what you do...why the hell do you give enough of a crap about what I think to throw a temper tantrum, attack anyone personally, flaunt your "experience" as "more than anyone", including the people you know nothing about, and stomp your feet screaming "you haven't done as much as I have!!!"?
Clearly my view stuck a nerve of truth that one does not like to face.

Nevermind.....letting it go.

as it stands, we are doing more originals lately at places that know us -- and places that are in more artsy areas -- and focusing on covers for the small bar gigs in the more ig'nant areas of PA it works great, and i would say out of our covers, 50 percent are not very original, whilst the other half are pretty artistic

[jasonbmerrill]

Most people I know, including myself like to hear cover songs done pretty much like the original.

you make jimi hendrix and led zeppelin sad

[Lt. Bob]

hmmm ...... although I still have Toker41 on ignore, I of course saw the quote.
i think it's funny that he keeps saying he's letting it go and even negrepped me with the comment the "I can't let it go" when the fact is, and it is a fact, since our dustup and brief fight I haven't said a single thing about him or this thread whatsoever. I haven't commented on anything he might have said in other threads ..... I haven't even mentioned him or said a single thing negative or otherwise about him, here or on any other board. I haven't responded to him ..... I haven't neg-repped him ..... I haven't made insulting remarks about him ..... nothing.
That's letting it go ..... no point in arguing with someone you're not going to agree with. Too bad he can't seem to do the same.

But to be clear, what I objected to about him was the fact that he stated his opinion as fact when it's only his opinion. A valid opinion with good points but still, only his opinion.

As far as comparing what we've each done, I only mentioned that to try and point out that his opinion isn't any more valid than mine because I have as solid credentials as he does. That's all ...... he doesn't have any credentials that make his opinion automatically right and mine wrong. But I wasn't getting into a pissing contest, I was just trying to establish that my opinion comes from just as strong a musical career as his.
And, unlike him, I haven't called him names; and several times when he made a good point I said so ..... I said it was valid. He, OTOH, has repeatedly called me names and in the threads I've seen, I never see him acknowledge any validity to anyones' opinion unless it agrees with his.
Probably he has and I just didn't see it so perhaps that was unfair of me but still, that's what I've seen to the best of my recollection.

He has his opinion and I have mine but regardless of how many songs we've each written or how many records we may be on or how many gigs we may have done, I'm at least as qualified as him to have an opinion and his carries no more weight than mine. But he apparently thinks that my opinion has no value whatsoever because his is right so he won't give any consideration to anything else. If I disagree with him, in his mind it's not that I have a different viewpoint or opinion that's worth considering, it's that I'm wrong. That's close-minded.

And my reaction was one mainly of exasperation that he can't seem to see any value in anyones' opinion that doesn't agree with his. But that's certainly his right and he's hardly the first musician I've ever seen that's not open to the idea that anything could be different that their viewpoint.
Everybody does the music thing however it seems right to them .... ultimately the only thing that matters is your connection to the music. Like most things in life ..... you have to find your own way.

As far as his opinion of me ....... I've gone to his site , I've listened to him play ..... I'm not worried about his opinion of me. He can think what he wishes ...... if we ever run into each other and get to play together or he sees me play .... he'll have a different attitude towards me ..... I'm confident of that.

In the end, I've ignored him because I actually DON'T feel anything particular negative towards him as evidenced by a total lack of me trying to flame it out with him over this. I don't come here for anything but a little diversion once in a while ..... the whole internet enemy thing is a waste of time plus, to go on about it for months is a way overreaction although, once again, we all do what we feel we have to.
But I sure do think it's funny that here months later when I haven't said another word about it or him, he's still going on about it.

Now, I've been polite and courteous, I've elaborated on what I meant back then to clear up the idea that it was just me trying to outdo him (contributed to by my poor choice of words and getting pissed off which is always a waste of time if someone's not gonna respect your opinion anyway).
I've acknowledged not handling this well and I've still not called him any names.
And I have, in fact, until now stayed well away from this because I don't see the point in all the negative crap so I blew it off back when it happened and have stayed completely away from anymore conflict over it. He's accusing me , I guess, of having my ego bruised but of the two of us, I'm the only one that hasn't given this much thought and haven't referred to it until I saw a quote of yet another flurry of overreaction and name calling.
Everyone does what they have to but I don't really care about this and am not gonna respond anymore even to quotes I see. I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding that my words may have caused and now this is something and someone I'll never give a seconds' thought to ever again.

Let's see if Mr. "Letting it go" can actually do that.

[Toker41]

Bob, so easy. Barely even entertaining. I'm surprised at how much you actually lie, though. Neg rep saying "not letting it go"? I gave you pos rep and said "no hard feelings", you sent a PM saying you will not return the pos rep, so I negged to offset the pos that I no longer felt you deserved since you slapped away the olive branch. Other's may not see the real you, but I know for a fact now that you are a liar.

Hhhhhmmm....here you are "not posting on other threads", and "not calling me names".

exactly the way he responded to me ...... for not kissing his untalented butt ..... as if I care about that.
Thing is ...... he's a freakin' know-it-all that never acknowledges anyone elses' opinion to have any validity unless it agrees with his.
After my last useless exchange with him where he continued to show no understanding that other people know stuff besides just him ....

I never questioned your talent, and never attacked your talent as you have mine on more than one occasion. You simply become hostile when you find my views insulting (or truthful).

You throw a lot of shit around. Put your balls on the block, and post something of yours if you are going to sling mud.

[true-eurt]

Well...I don't have a band...but...I prefer doing original stuff, just because I love to participate in the creating of something that begun with a hum...boom...thump...whap...zing...waaaaaah...ooooo or whatever other cacophony rooted from that wacky, mysterious machine between someone's ears and funneled out into the realm of audio waves of madness to become a masterpiece...or not....but a good cover is good too.

I know most people DO expect a cover band, when performing, to COVER as close to the original artist song as possible. I pretty much like a twist on things..only for the matter of this...IF I wanna hear the original song as is, I prefer listening to the original artist perform it...usually...but even that isn't set in cement. I've heard some damn good straight on covers....but also, some with a twist to them, and if the twist is done good, they kicked butt....I know, it doesn't make sense to y'all, but that's just me.

I cannot cover anyone well at all, so I try to stick to my own stuff. I do however admire someone who can do a cover exactly as it was original...I also admire someone who can pull off putting their own twist on it too.

I believe it takes a special skill and talent, to do a cover note for note and sound as good as the original artist...it also takes a special talent and skillz to create your own song from scratch...as to which is the most difficult, would depend on the talents given to the person doing either..okay, I have a talent to shake, rattle on..and hum.

I understand Toker's point and I also understand Lt Bob's point. My least favorite thing to argue about is music...besides, all in all, it's just a matter of taste and preference for all of us, whether we be creators, players or listeners...and there is amazingly, a market for all kinds of music and the means of making it...that is a good thing for me.

[Toker41]

Well put, True. You have a way with words. Would love to hear your songs, sometime.
I have no problem with Bob's views. It was his personal attacks, and blatant lies that I didn't care for, and that caused the gloves to come off. All because he disagreed with my view. Seems he simply doesn't like when someone has a view that strikes a nerve. His reaction comes from his own insecurity. Deep inside, he must agree with me, and it clearly upsets him. Otherwise, he wouldn't give 2 sh*t's about what some stranger on an internet forum thinks.

BTW...for the record, Bob lies. I NEVER neged him saying "I can't let it go", and he ABSOLUTELY bashed me on other threads out of the blue. This makes anything he claims questionable at best since he is a proven liar.
BTW...there is a way to tell when you are on someone's ignore list. To date....I am not. More lies, Bob?

[Treeline]

Toker, I'm afraid you are way out of your league with the Lt B. Just a fact.

My band plays roots 'n roll - lots of rockabilly, western swing, a little soft country and a healthy dose of old Stones and early Beatles. Its mostly originals, and the band has enough originals to do an entire evening.

But the reality is that the crowd wakes up when we start playing covers. So an evening in a bar without playing covers is asking one hell of a lot from the audience. When I'm doing a solo gig, all I play are covers because I have yet to write a single thing I can stand to have anyone else hear.

[Toker41]

Treeline, that is an assumption about what "league" I belong in.

[Treeline]

Treeline, that is an assumption about what "league" I belong in.

No, it's a recognition of your failure to recognize what league Lt. Bob belongs in. Performers in his league tend to do their homework thoroughly and so are unlikely to make that kind of mistake quite as quickly as you did.