Guitar isocab for cheapskates and amateurs.

[jonny deep]

This phrase has been on my mind for the best part of a year so last week, I finally uncoupled it. Basically, I put it on 4~5 inch blocks of tough flame retardent foam to cut down on any vibration. Getting the inner box out to make the outer one easier to get up so I could cover the floor in foam was really hard. I'm over 6 feet and the space available to my little brother and I, not to mention the weight of the box, was nearly prohibitive ! I certainly couldn't do it on my own.
I'm not the man I used to be.
I'm enjoying the 'isocab' and I'm really glad that I made it. My 15 watt Line 6 amp has been earning it's keep and I've been sampling the joys of a loud amp. The 58 has been proving to be a good guitar amp recording mic as well, contrary to common perception.

Hey Grim - nice job. How much do you think you spent on materials for this - coud be just what I'm looking for!

[grimtraveller]

Bump.....no advice or answers, Grim???

Sorry there Miner, I've just this moment seen the responses !

I'm about to build almost the same thing, but use one of my 1x12 cabs instead of a combo amp. I plan on building it wide enough so either of my cabs will fit, & length wise, I'm going to have about 12" of mic adjustment. Yeah, it'll be a pretty big box, but I should be able to track my guitars at night (after work), & not disturb anyone.

The size will be large and going for the box within a box type thing, the weight will be phenomenal, but it's worth it. If you're able to build it in the room it's going to end up in, so much the better. I built it in the front room of our flat. I was able to move the smaller box in and out of the larger one ~ just ! Once it was in the kitchen cupboard, it was impossible for me to lift, primarilly because of the space. I just had no leverage.
If I was building it now, I think I'd make the space between the boxes a bit bigger and fill the void with rockwool or boiler insulation stuff or the heavy fire retardent foam blocks or Roxul. Be sure to support the inner box on neoprene rubber or those thick foam blocks.

I almost bought the Randall ISO last week, but came home with an Orange 1x12 V30 instead. It would probably be more versatile/easier to just put another cab in the ISO, rather than change out speakers in the Randall ISO....

Precisely. When I first heard of the isocab, not a single guitarist or music shop worker I spoke to had heard of such a thing. And they were experienced guys. I actually first heard of it here. At the start of 2010 there was this bizarre and provocative character called marioantigod who was looking for a way to track loud in his flat and someone suggested an isocab. I looked into it and thought it looked interesting. The Randall was one of the models I looked at but the guy that made them had let alot of people down in not getting them dispatched. Besides which, they all seemed to be made in the US of A and as well as costing over £300, shipping would have cost nearly as much and I just didn't have that kind of money. But I liked the idea so I thought about building my own. I'm not really any good with those kind of electronics so when I read that an airtight box would really clamp down on the volume, the idea of a box within a box became a more attractive proposition. I also liked the idea of being able to put different amps in the box, therefore, having more flexibility.

I'm really curious to how much the sound is cut/stopped in the room, my amp is only 15 watts, & I usually don't crank it all the way, the sweet spot is around 5-6 on my amp (little Egnater Tweaker tube head, which I love, but at night, it's hard to get the volume past "1" without waking the family), so if I could get the amp up to around that volume (or even a little lower, I've been getting decent recordings with the amp on 2-3, but of course, a little louder would be getting the power tubes cooking a little), with the ISO sounding about like a tv in the next room, I'd be pretty happy......

This was the $64,000,000 question for me, what if I went to all that trouble building, only to find that the walls were shaking with guitar vibrations and the cops were pounding on my door with floods of irate neighbours ?
I was sweating when I first tested it. But you really can't compare the sound of my 15 watt Line 6 in the room with the sound of it in the small box. And with the small box within the larger one, it really cuts down the volume. You can still hear it, the way you'd maybe hear a kettle as it boils, but if the TV is on, you barely hear it. Our kitchen is a 10 metre cable distance away from the front room where I'll track and I can't hear it. When my wife or the kids are in the kitchen and I'm blasting away, they can barely hear it. And our kitchen is on top of the bedroom of the only moaning neighbour in the whole block. I usually let him know when there's going to be guitaring or drumming and especially now the outer box is uncoupled, there's been no bother from him. Last week, I was tracking guitar until just after 9; my cut off point is usually 7.
I don't usually crank the amp all the way up either. On the 'crunch' setting you get a nice tone or with the channel and master volumes anywhere between 11 and 2 o'clock. I'm surprized how loud it gets, actually. It helps that it's stationed in the kitchen cupboard. But you can hear cars, buses, helicopters and planes going by much more than you'll ever hear my guitaring. Which may be a blessing to the many !
One thing I've never done is record the bass using it. I was doing it once a couple of years back but it was late and the thump of the uncoupled box did disturb my neighbour downstairs. After that I never bothered because if I want to mic the bass, I record in mine and my wife's room or the kids room. Better sound ~ and no one hears it.

You got any more ideas/advice before I start my build???? I've been doing a lot of reading up on these, & the "box in a box" seems to work best. I'm going to try some Roxul Safe-N-Sound in between my inner & outer box (on all sides, it's 3" thick), & I'm also gonna try making my own de-coupler/stands out of the Roxul as well (that should keep any vibrations/sound from traveling through the floor.....)....

The first time I placed the inner box in the outer one, I thought to myself, I'd love to fill the void with sand ! But then, it would never be able to be moved ! Although foam and the like are useless for soundproofing if stuck to a wall, they do play a role in absorption, not of the sound in the inner box, but in cutting down vibrations between the boxes. I've stuffed tightly, lots of it between the two and I've noticed a bit of a difference. So Roxul should more than do the job.
If I was a little more electronically handy, I would have worked a better way to connect leads to amps. One of the things that I was going to do right up to the last minute was to drill a small hole in each box, tightly fit a female to female 1/4" jack connector to each and have a very short lead connecting from one connector to the other.That way, all I'd need to do was connect a lead to the amp and just connect the guitar lead to the connector on the outer box. The cack handed way I did it works OK though, especially when the lids are clamped down.
The other thing I would probably change would be the lids themselves. Both fit flush on top of the boxes. I would probably make them sit snugly within the top of the boxes on battens so they wouldn't need to be clamped. But these aren't major matters. You know how it is when you do something for the first time ~ afterwards, you think of other ways you could've done parts even though it's not an issue. If it really was an issue, I'd lop off a little of the lids and do what I suggested.

How much do you think you spent on materials for this - coud be just what I'm looking for !

You know, the most expensive part of the whole thing was the one unnecessary part ~ the acoustistop rubber covering. I'd read about how it's used in some of those "room within a room" Esmono studio things that get custom built and I thought I'd have some to cut some of the ringiness. In retrospect, I probably could've achieved the same effect and look with material. Being heavy stuff, it did add to the mass though !
The MDF was pretty cheap. I got it from either Homebase or B&Q because they have a cutting service. If you take into account screws and other hardware, glue and the like, the foam and neoprene rubber etc, the whole thing could be done for anywhere between £80 and £150 depending mainly on the cost of the wood. Cheaper with scrap wood/MDF. Even with the acoustistop covering, it was substantially less than what a ready made isocab would've cost, not including the shipping and with the disadvantage that I'd be stuck with one speaker sound....

[minerman]

Thanks so much for the detailed response, Grim!!!

I still have some more thinking/planning to do, but I'm basically gonna do the box in a box, with the 3" Roxul in between the boxes, & foam on the inside box (on all sides, where the mic/speaker will be), to knock down reflections & standing waves as best I can. That should de-couple the boxes from each other, cutting down on the vibrations. I'm still going to use some of the Roxul to de-couple the box from the floor too, so with all the Roxul I plan on using, it should work pretty good (I hope..)....

Do you think I should still use neoprene/foam blocks between the boxes (on the bottom)? I was thinking the Roxul should do that, as I'll have 3" on all sides, between the inner & outer box....Lemme know what ya think....

Good tip on the lids too, I may end up changing my mind on how I wanna do the lids....

Your answer about the noise/volume really makes this project sound worthwhile, if you/your family are in the same room as your ISO box, & can barely hear it, that's great, & should work really well for me. I plan on putting the ISO in the far corner of my room, as far away as I can possibly get it, from everyone else (my son's room is straight across from mine, the closets in the rooms are actually only seperated by some 2x4's & some drywall, that's where I currently have my cab....really low volume doesn't seem to bother him, or he hasn't said so anyway, but I try not to even play/record unless it's during the day/he's gone. He works, & I don't wanna bother him....). Our bedroom is across the hall, with the doors offset about 6-8', & believe it or not, when I play/record, you can actually hear the amp better in our bedroom than in my son's. Guess the sound is traveling through the studs in the walls....

I may do the 1/4" & XLR jacks on my box, should be pretty simple to do really, but then again, I might not. I'm sure it would help seal the box(es) a little better, but honestly, if your box cuts the sound that much, then that should work (just making notches for the cables).......

If there's anything else you can add, please do so. I'm gonna wait until one day next week to get the materials, & build the ISO in the room I use. Again, if there's anything else you can think of, lemme know!!!

You've pretty much sold me on building this thing Grim, thanks again!!!!!

[grimtraveller]

[B]Do you think I should still use neoprene/foam blocks between the boxes (on the bottom)? I was thinking the Roxul should do that, as I'll have 3" on all sides, between the inner & outer box....Lemme know what ya think....

The Roxul should be more than adequate actually.
The thing that was uppermost on my mind while building it was that I had no idea what to expect. I had absolutely nothing by which to measure success or failure. Even on those YouTube videaos where they show someone putting the "speaker in box" Randall type isocabs together, you never really get a sense of how much the volume is cut down when they've finished.
So the only criteria that I could use was "How loud is this amp when I play it openly" and go from there. Everyone's own personal criteria and expectation will be different but I know for me, it's made such a great difference. I think that even if it wasn't located in the kitchen cupboard, it would still have made a great difference. At the very worst it would've been better than how things had stood without it. I'd had enough of DI guitar !
I look forward to seeing how you get on with yours.

[grimtraveller]

As with any sounds we record, the key is in being happy with the sounds and tones you come up with.

[minerman]

Thanks again Grim,
I suppose I'm gonna go over all my measuring/calculations, write out what I'll need, & just build the thing. I'm like you, I have nothing to measure success/failure by, but I think it should turn out pretty decent with the plans I have for the box......

BTW, I'm sick of ampsims too, sure, they have their place, but I find it way more satisfying to have real amp/cab tones in my recordings. Ampsims are getting better all the time, & they have their place in recording, but for me, it's the real amp/cab.....

Thanks again!!!!

When I start my build, I'll take some pics of the progress......

[minerman]

The last few days, I've been thinking of building my ISO like the Randall/Rivera/Jet City. I could take the speakers out of my 1x12's, & use 'em in the ISO. If I built this way, it would be a little smaller, & might cost just a little less....

Here's a few pics I found of a diy ISO cab in another forum. The dimensions of this cab are roughly 48" long x 36" tall x 28" wide, & weighs about 400 lbs... Of course, I don't want the box/cab I'm planning on building to be this big/heavy, so I have some decisions to make on this.....

We mentioned using different speakers/cabs for variety in sound, it would actually be pretty easy to make a removable baffle for each of my speakers (I'd probably have leftover mdf anyway), or use wingnuts to be able to change the speakers out pretty quickly. And, I have an offer on a Celestion T-75 for $50 that I could use also, & wouldn't have an empty 1x12 cab sitting around.....

The cab in the pics is made of 3/4" MDF, doubled (with Green Glue in between the layers) on all sides, with a gigantic amount of Roxul inside. There's another 6" (or 9" can't remember exactly..) of Roxul that covers the entire top when the lid in on the box too, I just didn't upload the pics.... I haven't heard any sound clips, but the guy who built it said he can dime his Tweaker amp (same as mine ), & can barely hear it in the same room, so if I built something pretty similar to this, it should do the trick.

So, I'm gonna re-think my plans for a few days, do some more estimating on the cost. Again, I'm not gonna build my ISO quite as large as this one, but pretty similar.......

Any thoughts???

[grimtraveller]

Any thoughts???

Yeah, this;

I haven't heard any sound clips, but the guy who built it said he can dime his Tweaker amp (same as mine ), & can barely hear it in the same room

The ultimate bottom line for me. The isocab was always primarilly about cutting down the noise. From there, the aesthetics of the sound come in and if you like the sound that you can get with the amps {if you use the box method} or the speaker {if you use the Randall/Riviera method}, that's really all that matters. So from where I sit, this one also looks a great idea.

[minerman]

Probably gonna start my build this weekend, going for the "1x12 cab in a box" for now, & if it works pretty good (noise level), might leave it alone, but if not, I'll build another box (for the "box in a box" thing) like the Randall/Rivera/Jet City.....

Wish me luck!!!!

[jonny deep]

Probably gonna start my build this weekend, going for the "1x12 cab in a box" for now, & if it works pretty good (noise level), might leave it alone, but if not, I'll build another box (for the "box in a box" thing) like the Randall/Rivera/Jet City.....

Wish me luck!!!!

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. I want to do this for a 1x12 and a 15W tube amp (which is very loud!), so interested to hear how people fare with such amps.