Cabinet Materials and Dimensions

JDOD

therecordingrebels.com
Was thinking of building a 2x12 based on these dimensions:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/VICV2...v-vertical-cabinet-with-celestion-vintage-30s
This cab has good reviews, but is very expensive.

How much do materials make a difference to the quality of a cab? my initial idea was going to be to use MDF as its cheap to get in large enough sheets, you can then laminate ply onto it quite easily.

It is best to leave the inside of the cab as bare wood or should it be covered?
What about the outside of the cab? Does this make a difference if I cover it?
Does anyone have a real opinion on grill cloth?

What about cab dimensions? I've put that cab up just 'cos its one I've played through before and it sounded great, but is it really just a case of bigger is better? I won't be going for more than a 2x12 though.
 
Was thinking of building a 2x12 based on these dimensions:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/VICV2...v-vertical-cabinet-with-celestion-vintage-30s
This cab has good reviews, but is very expensive.

How much do materials make a difference to the quality of a cab? my initial idea was going to be to use MDF as its cheap to get in large enough sheets, you can then laminate ply onto it quite easily.

It is best to leave the inside of the cab as bare wood or should it be covered?
What about the outside of the cab? Does this make a difference if I cover it?
Does anyone have a real opinion on grill cloth?

What about cab dimensions? I've put that cab up just 'cos its one I've played through before and it sounded great, but is it really just a case of bigger is better? I won't be going for more than a 2x12 though.

I'm not a cab builder, but I've played and dug around in many cabs. I can give you general answers...

1) Materials matter, though I'm not sure how much. The best speaker cabs are usually a nice voidless Birch plywood or something similar. Laminates and particle board are usually used for cheaper budget cabs. MDF might be good because it's dense, heavy, and usually very straight, but no one seems to use it, so I assume there's some problem with it. MDF is pretty fragile. Maybe that's why.

2) Inside the cab can be ugly and bare.

3) The outside is usually covered on Tolex, but it does nothing for the sound. It's mostly about looks and protection. You could leave it bare wood, paint it, or stain it and it makes no difference.

4) I think grill cloth matters a lot. A dense weave or tweed cloth, like on older cabs, will cut some highs and sound "darker". Look at an Orange cab, old Fender, or old Marshall basketweave. Very dense grill cloth, sometimes almost like wicker. You can barely shine a light through those things. They sound dark. Compare that to a modern cab with a more open weave, or worse, one of those metal grille cabs, and they will sound very bright. The good thing is that you can get a grill cloth nowadays to look however you want in open or tight weave. I tend to prefer a more open weave myself and just move the mic darker if necessary.

5) I don't know anything about dimensions. There is a science to it. Real audiophiles freak out over dimensions and internal space. I do know this - bigger usually sounds better for guitar cabs. I had an oversized Avatar 2x12 for a while, and it sounded every bit as big and punchy as a 4x12. Hell, it was almost as big as a 4x12. It was huge for a 2x12, and it sounded great. I've also used and heard 2x12s on the smaller end of the spectrum and they don't sound as great. So I'd say go as big as you're comfortable with. Check out Avatar speakers and see if he lists his 2x12 dimensions. It was a great cab. I only got rid of it because some guy offered a trade for a Marshall 4x12 B cab, which I was looking for at the time.
 
Cheers, I probably will try MDF - as I said - I'll be laminating it with ply so it will be less likely to suffer damage - I'll also stick corners on.

I definitely want to go for a lighter cloth than my Blackstar - Its actually tricky to shine a light through it, so this would be for the benefit of mic placement as much as tone.

Regarding size, I'll stick to the size of that Victory cab and possibly go bigger if my shelf can accommodate it, unless someone else comes across with a real scientific assessment of cab sizes.

This project could save me a good few quid and I have a lot of different things I want which all cost a couple of hundred quid at the moment - so if I can get a cab built for 100 quids worth of materials then I'm doing OK.
 
Just make sure all of your joints are very square and very tight. I mean obviously from a construction perspective you want it solid and square, but it also matters for the sound. If you want a true closed-back sound, it needs to be tight and sealed.

One design feature you could incorporate, and I think is pretty neat, is to make a removable panel on the back so you can get a true open-back sound if you want. My Avatar had this feature and it was pretty cool. It was an oval hole roughly half the size of the back panel with a panel screwed over it. The removable panel and back cab panel were both tolexed, so it sealed tight when screwed together. Removing that back panel yielded a very open, vintage kind of big sound from the cab. It was great for room miking...not that I used it much. But it was cool nonetheless.

What speakers are you gonna put in it?
 
Just make sure all of your joints are very square and very tight. I mean obviously from a construction perspective you want it solid and square, but it also matters for the sound. If you want a true closed-back sound, it needs to be tight and sealed.

One design feature you could incorporate, and I think is pretty neat, is to make a removable panel on the back so you can get a true open-back sound if you want. My Avatar had this feature and it was pretty cool. It was an oval hole roughly half the size of the back panel with a panel screwed over it. The removable panel and back cab panel were both tolexed, so it sealed tight when screwed together. Removing that back panel yielded a very open, vintage kind of big sound from the cab. It was great for room miking...not that I used it much. But it was cool nonetheless.

What speakers are you gonna put in it?

I've got no worries making a good job of the build - tight corners and stuff like that.

Probably a pair of V30s but, given that I mostly close mic, I wouldn't mind mis-matched speakers for some variation provided that they don't sound like shit in the room.

If I trade my HT20 Combo in for a HT20 Head I'll be sticking the Rocket 50 speaker back in the Combo so I'll have a V30 anyway - so there'll definitely be one V30 in it.
 
If this is strictly a close-mic recording cab, you can basically put whatever speakers you want in it...providing the ohm ratings match. Something very different from the V30 would give you some good tone options for miking.

If there's any chance for room miking or live use, you're gonna want to consider how the speakers play together. Vintage 30s are aggressive with their loudness, so they can easily overpower less efficient speakers. It's pretty common to pair Vintage 30s with G12H-30s because they're roughly the same loudness. They sound different, but they work well together.
 
If this is strictly a close-mic recording cab, you can basically put whatever speakers you want in it...providing the ohm ratings match. Something very different from the V30 would give you some good tone options for miking.

If there's any chance for room miking or live use, you're gonna want to consider how the speakers play together. Vintage 30s are aggressive with their loudness, so they can easily overpower less efficient speakers. It's pretty common to pair Vintage 30s with G12H-30s because they're roughly the same loudness. They sound different, but they work well together.

Cheers, I wouldn't know what "tonal character" to expect of any speaker other than a V30 by name alone but I'll start doing a bit more research when I start moving the project along a bit.
 
Cheers, I wouldn't know what "tonal character" to expect of any speaker other than a V30 by name alone but I'll start doing a bit more research when I start moving the project along a bit.

Well you know I'm a big fan of Greenbacks, and Vintage 30s too. They're my two most often mic'd speakers for rock and roll guitar tracks. I obviously chase a different tone than you do, but in a mix they sound fantastic opposite each other.
 
Well you know I'm a big fan of Greenbacks, and Vintage 30s too. They're my two most often mic'd speakers for rock and roll guitar tracks. I obviously chase a different tone than you do, but in a mix they sound fantastic opposite each other.
Cheers, I'll keep that in mind and I'll keep an eye on this thread for advice about cabs should anyone else chime in.
Now I'm giving it a bit more thought I'm thinking of trying to do something clever with mic holders too - like building a mic rack across the front so I can adjust distance out and distance from the centre easily.
 
Now, it is pretty well known heareabouts that I am pig useless on guitar (can fix 'lectrics and tune one tho!) and the ears are shot. However I have gleaned quite a bit of info on cabs over the last few years..

Material: "They" say ply is best because it moves* and adds it own (non-linear!) character to the sound. Clearly this depends a lot on loudness and the effect is most evident (they say) on a sealed, 4x12 being hardly pressed. MDF is ok, Blackstar use it for some of their budget range. It is NOT as strong as ply and denser. Yer pays yer money?

Size: Matters little it seems. Cabs are designed to be in the "footprint" of a head for the most part. Bigger might give a boomy bas end but you can always reduce the volume with expanded polly. A smaller SEALED box give a higher LF power handling capacity but unless you are shaving close to the speaker's power limits, not a worry.

The V30s should be a good match to an HT-20 since they are often said to be "dark" even a bit dull? The mid range bite should help there. And, DON'T put the Rocket in the combo unless you are going to sell it to someone you hate? We have a 20 driving a Greenback (in an old Hi-Watt combo cab) and son loved it but then he is more jazz than rock these days.

*Interesting to listen to two 4x12 cabs being bashed to H with a 200watter whilst wearing deffs? You get a lot of the creaking and groaning of the woodwork!

Dave.
 
I would imagine that mdf will give you a relatively bright cabinet.

At least with 4x12s, the cabinet "breathing" with the low end helps with propagation of low frequencies. A material that doesn't move would lack that property.
 
From the woodworking side, MDF can strip easily. There are specific screws you can use for it; big pitch and deep thread for a good bite. I thought about making a bass cabinet but haven't gotten beyond thinking about it. I would use MDF with lots of glue and bracing.

my 2 pence
 
Itve made a shitoad of guitar and bass cabinets.
Birch plywood sounds the best.

I did one 4x12 straigt cab, contructed exactly like a 60s Marshall cab, except not as deep. For some reason that cab is a bit low on bass. It still sounds good, but doesn't have the bottom end of a vintage cab.

For combo amps, finger jointed or dovetail pine cabinets with a 1/2 inch birch ply baffle are magical.

Particle board is shit, and mdf I would only use for hi fi speakers.
 
Itve made a shitoad of guitar and bass cabinets.
Birch plywood sounds the best.

I did one 4x12 straigt cab, contructed exactly like a 60s Marshall cab, except not as deep. For some reason that cab is a bit low on bass. It still sounds good, but doesn't have the bottom end of a vintage cab.

For combo amps, finger jointed or dovetail pine cabinets with a 1/2 inch birch ply baffle are magical.

Particle board is shit, and mdf I would only use for hi fi speakers.

Yes, basically for a hi fi cabinet you need a rigid dense material that does not contribute to the sound. MDF is very good for this but brick, stone and steel are even better though of course impractical for mobile use.

Guitar cabs were historically made from 3/4" (19mm) ply and we have become conditioned to "that" sound. Put a V30 in a dense, non resonant box and ALL you hear is the V30, warts and all!

People wax lyrical about cabs made from "real" timber but that is a lottery. Light, springy wood might mimic ply whereas heavy, well damped (200yr old Oak say!) would be more akin to concrete!

Dave.
 
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