miking a bass cab

[coplinger]

I am recording a band this weekend & will be running the bass direct as well as miking the cab (4x10). I will have an AT 4033, a SP B3, a Marshall V67, and a SM57 available. Which would you suggest? Is it best to mic close like you would a guitar cabinet, or should I mic it from a few feet back? The bass cab will be in the same room as drums & guitar amp.

[Mark7]

No one can tell you the correct way to mike a bass cab as it all depends what sound you're after. The most popular bass sounds tend to be fairly dry so you should try to get the mic as close as possible to eliminate any room sound. Try your B3 with the pad on in omni mode (don't worry about it being in the same room as the guitar amp and drums, the volume of the bass cab should drown them out).

[Son of Mixerman]

Id use a 57, 3 inches off the grill, angle the mic so its perpendicular to the cone. LDC's might not take the SPL.
Its an idea. Its as good as any to start.

or go here and see expert advice:




http://www.artistpro.com/ubbcgi/ulti...;f=16;t=000056


SoMm

[bgavin]

The SM57 has a pronounced rolloff below 200 Hz, so I have to question if it is appropriate for bass.

Vented bass cabs generate nearly all their output from the vent at the tuning frequency. Close micing the cone will not pick this up. Very few bass cabs are anywhere close to flat anyway, so you must be micing for the specific cabinet or tube amp tone.

Unless there is a compelling need to mic the cab, I'd consider going DI with the bass.

[coplinger]

After hearing the band live, I don't think I can capture the bass players tone with just a DI. I am going to see what the direct out of his amp sounds like (assuming he has one), but I think it would help to mic the cab as well. I could always use the 57 and get the bottom end from the DI. I also have a ecm8000, would this possibly be a better choice?

[DJL]

Too bad you don't have a Sennheiser MD421.

[Mark7]

Perhaps people with the "D.I. everything" mentality should go out and buy themselves an electronic drum kit, or have a jack socket fitted to their larnyx.

[Mark7]

Originally posted by Son of Mixerman
Id use a 57, 3 inches off the grill, angle the mic so its perpendicular to the cone. LDC's might not take the SPL.
Its an idea. Its as good as any to start.

or go here and see expert advice:




http://www.artistpro.com/ubbcgi/ulti...;f=16;t=000056


SoMm

Is there a handy reference guide anywhere that gives the maximum dB levels produced by a range of instruments and amplifiers?

[Fletcher]

Try them all if you have a chance... but remember, the bass sound has to work in context with the rest of the music than comprises the song... what you hear "in solo" is totally irrelevant to the full presentation of the music... in other words, make your decision when listening to the bass sound with all the other instruments playing.

Best of luck...

[SubA]

The 4033 handles high SPLs quite well. That's what I would try first. But yes... try them all.

[Track Rat]

Originally posted by SubA
The 4033 handles high SPLs quite well. That's what I would try first. But yes... try them all.

My opinion too.

[Son of Mixerman]

Originally posted by Mark7
Is there a handy reference guide anywhere that gives the maximum dB levels produced by a range of instruments and amplifiers?

Nope, you could stand in front of te amp or instrument with an spl meter and see for your self. Learn to find the sweet spots of the instrument by listening to it. Invaluable advice from Aaron Carey as taught by Bill Metoyer, "Slipperman"...and Fletcher... Put the mic where the music sounds best as a starter.

My reasoning for the 57 is as follows...YMMV
As far as not using the 57 because of the 200Hz roll off, the mic still picks up enough bottom to loosen your fillings. On several occasions I have had to roll of at 80Hz on 4X12 cabinets because of too much low end. Just because a mic rolls off, doesn't mean that everything below the roll off disappears, its just reduce enough to make you notice.
The reason I suggest the 57 is because its all done in the same room. An LDC is going to hear alot more by its nature than a directional dynamic mic with decent off axis rejection.
If you were mic'ing a bass cab in its own room the 4033 or the B3 would probably be good starters(IMO). The farther the mic is from the cabinet the more room and other instruments will effect the sound. once those are tracked you can't seperate them again. There is nothing wrong with tracking a more live environment but its more difficult without alot of experience and a incredible parametric EQ to add definition. I have a band coming in to retrack an entire project after doing it in the same room. The bottom is loaded and the guitars and vocals are inseperable. If it was tracked differently they would just remix...patch in a GML eq on the Bass and Kick and the band would be happy. Pre-planning and having some down stream insight during tracking saves time and money. You have to try it in anycase for the sake of learning. I like to have the band leave for an evening so me and the intern can experiment for our own education. I sorta dislike having the band around during setup. Interns lisiten alot better


SoMm

[Scooter B]

You can always just DI for now and "re-amp" the DI signal to a bass amp with a mic during mixdown.

This way you could better judge how the added mic signal fits in context to the rest of the band and you have plenty of time to experiment with mic types and mic placement.

[bgavin]

Originally posted by coplinger
I don't think I can capture the bass players tone with just a DI. I could always use the 57 and get the bottom end from the DI.

A specific tone is the compelling reason for micing the bass cab.

I am a performing bassist and gig constantly. Some of us are interested only in the clean tone of the instrument, and not overdriven power tubes or effects. A DI suits us fine because the full range of the instrument is what we want recorded.

Other bassists do the Mesa/SVT thing with 10" drivers that can't produce a true low fundamental, but they nail the grinding thing. The electronics and drivers are intrinsic to this tone, and a DI won't catch any of this at all. However, mixing a DI signal with micing this type of amp/cab will add more bottom.

My Hammond XK2 is all electronic, and I'm happy running it DI to capture the full brilliance.

[toby.I.]

remeber a 57 just past the grill will be about 4 inches from the cone, and horribly out of phase. try to find the next point where the two are in phase, often about a foot from the cab.

[coplinger]

Originally posted by toby.I.
remeber a 57 just past the grill will be about 4 inches from the cone, and horribly out of phase. try to find the next point where the two are in phase, often about a foot from the cab.

This won't matter as I am recording them on 2 separate tracks & can always time shift the DI later.

[bgavin]

The phase angle between the DI signal and SM57 signal is entirely dependent upon wavelength. When the mic is 1 wavelength from the piston surface, the DI and mic are in phase or anti-phase, depending on which way the mic is pointing. This occurs only at 1 fundamental frequency for a given mic distance. As the frequency changes, so does the mic placement distance for perfect phasing with the DI.

A distance of 1 foot will put the SM57 in phase with the DI at approximately 1128 Hz. It will also be one full cycle delayed from the DI.

Consider using a low pass filter on the DI that blocks everything above 60 Hz. The DI component will contain low bass information that is lacking from the SM57 recorded signal.

[coplinger]

Ah! My bad. I understand now what you mean. But isn't it a pretty common thing to mix a DI and a miced signal for bass? How do most AE's deal with this phase issue? (By the way, is it miCed or miKed?)

[Mark7]

MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED MIKED

And anyone who says otherwise is an illiterate oaf.

[bgavin]

Looks like a which-side-of-the pond thing.

There is no "k" in microphone, so this oaf votes for "mic'ed".

I also vote for "color" and not "colour"

[Mark7]

I'm sorry, but Dictionary.com has an entry for Miked ( see here ). But none for Miced, in any form.

[bgavin]

Yes, it sure does and Webster's also offers "mike" as a synonym for microphone.

You are 100% correct, and those of us who have used "miced" in the past are now proven to be illiterate oafs.

All who have ever used a malapropism, misspelling, or a poorly constructed colloquialism should be similarly branded. Those who use the "me and xxx" or "to I" constructs deserve flogging.

[coplinger]

Oops, maybe I should have started a new thread for the spelling question.