Drum programming in Sonar 2

[ljenab]

Hi, all. I'm a guitar player trying to work my way up to writing and recording more complex songs. I'm trying to get away from using SmartLoops and other "packaged" drum software, and am working with the fXpansion DR 808 that ships with Sonar 2 XL (I'm moving up from Guitar Tracks Pro). I started out trying to program by steps in the piano roll, but I'm finding it pretty tedious, and also hard to get the groove I'm after. My idea is to get a little MIDI controller keyboard and just play the drum grooves into Sonar, tweak them in the piano roll or staff view, then route them through a kit in the DR 808. First of all, will this work? And second, can anybody recommend a good, inexpensive direct-to-USB MIDI controller?

Thanks!

[James Argo]

DOH!!! Sorry to take it so long... I miss this one...

My idea is to get a little MIDI controller keyboard and just play the drum grooves into Sonar, tweak them in the piano roll or staff view, then route them through a kit in the DR 808.

That's what most of us do We called it "two fingers drummer". We found it's somehow easier to keep the groove this way rather than manualy inserting those notes into PRV (Piano roll view)

There's many brand for keyboard MIDI controller as you need. Just let google do the searching work, keyword : USB keyboard MIDI controller. Here's one of them I found...
follow this link...


Jaymz

[moskus]

Originally posted by ljenab
And second, can anybody recommend a good, inexpensive direct-to-USB MIDI controller?

You should check out some of the Evolution keyboards. MK-361C and MK-249C are pretty cool.

[TripleM]

I don't know if the 'Session Drummer' is available in Sonar, but I use it in HS2002. It can be used to create the basic MIDI drum pattern. You can then modify it with the Piano Roll as you're currently doing.

I don't know if you're using it now or not, but that can take some of the teduim out of drum programming.

Might be another option that won't cost you any more $$$.

[James Argo]

Originally posted by TripleM
I don't know if the 'Session Drummer' is available in Sonar, but I use it in HS2002. It can be used to create the basic MIDI drum pattern.

You mean the MIDI effect... Off course it is. It's very usefull...

[MadStrum!]

Hi, could you guys teach me how i could "output" the midi sound into a midi track so that I can alter it with the piano roll?
I tried various ways of recording it but it doesn't seem to work...
I'm using Sonar 2.0.

Pier.

[tubedude]

I use one of the Evolutions, too, I think its the 249C (its like a 49 key, just enough for using Drumkit From Hell... but I find the 49 kep limited now that I want to use it for some piano parts, so get a bigger one or maybe regret it later.
Playing beats in Dr-008 through Sonar and then tweaking in piano roll works like a charm.
The most recent one I put up is using Dr-008 with DFH that I tapped out with the Evolution keyboard. I do a lot of velocity adjustments later one though. You can hear it here: www.nowhereradio.com/sternum/singles its called song 7
I'll sell you a 49 key if you want it, and maybe get myself a bigger one.
Peace!
Paul

[moskus]

Originally posted by tubedude
I use one of the Evolutions, too, I think its the 249C (its like a 49 key, just enough for using Drumkit From Hell...

I think 49 keys is not enough for DFH, and it's certainly not enough for a GM soundfont (if there's percussion with it). Go for 63!

[James Argo]

Originally posted by MadStrum!
Hi, could you guys teach me how i could "output" the midi sound into a midi track so that I can alter it with the piano roll?
I tried various ways of recording it but it doesn't seem to work...

Sure, follow this thread...

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...threadid=85386

Hope it helps,

Jaymz

[ljenab]

Originally posted by moskus
I think 49 keys is not enough for DFH, and it's certainly not enough for a GM soundfont (if there's percussion with it). Go for 63!

OK, my MK-361C ships today. Now, tell me about the "Drumkit from Hell" . . . Will it work with the version of the DR 008 that ships with SONAR 2 XL?

Also, is there a good tutorial for this method anywhere? I've been trying and erring a lot.

[moskus]

Originally posted by ljenab
Will it work with the version of the DR 008 that ships with SONAR 2 XL?

Yes. Go here.

[mtardif]

Just wanted to throw out my plug, picked up DFH about 2 weeks ago and it's the best drum samples I've heard yet.

I took our drummer's current tracks he laid out, reproduced them (took a while to match it) with DFH, played it back for him not telling him that it's not his actual drumkit. He thought it was him playing and that I magically managed to re-mix the tracks with a perfect sound!!! Kind of funny, not sure what that says about our drummer though

It's definitely worth the $$$!

[ljenab]

Thanks, everybody. I listened to the samples on the DFH website and was amazed. I ordered it last night--can't wait to mess with it. How do you load it into the DR 008?

[tubedude]

Load the samples into a file on your desktop where its easy to find, and the just run the Dr-008 mapped kits and tell it where to find the samples. There is a tutorial on the CD on how to use with DR-008...
You need 2 seperate DR-008s going in order to load all of the close kit and the ambient kit... and that takes more than 512 RAm to load both, so be prepared.
Enjoy... did you order the extras? I heard there was something new out with it but I havent checked into it yet... must be bongos or something... gonnalook right now as a matter of fact...
Peace,
Paul

[MadStrum!]

Hi, for session drummer, could you guys teach me how i could "output" the midi drum sound into a midi track so that I can alter it with the piano roll?
I tried various ways of recording it but it doesn't seem to work...
I'm using Sonar 2.0.

Pier.

[guttadaj]

Originally posted by MadStrum!
Hi, for session drummer, could you guys teach me how i could "output" the midi drum sound into a midi track so that I can alter it with the piano roll?

After you've created the Session Drummer "song" that you want, do an Apply MIDI Effects on that track. Then, you should see a new little tiny sliver of a clip for that track. Next, slip edit that guy to reveal the funky fresh rhythmic ruminations of your session drummer. Piano roll edit to taste...

HTH,
-Jeff

[bgavin]

Is there a tutorial or book for doing drum stuff in Sonar?

I'm completely new at this... just received an Aardvark Q10 and considering Sonar as the software of choice.

[mtardif]

Trial and error, searching and reading through this forum, and reading through the DR-008 manual online (http://www.fxpansion.com/dr008_manual_v111.pdf) is more or less how I went through learning.

Best advice, read through as many threads that you can find about drum programming and try it all!! But yes, there are quite a few tutorials out there for Sonar.

[moskus]

As Mtardif said, all you need to do is practice, practice and practice!

The more experience, the better...


Alan McGuinness made a great thread about drum-programming. Read it here!

[ljenab]

OK, I have the Evolution MK-361C sitting in front of me, set to channel 10. I've created a MIDI channel, set its input to MIDI channel 10, set its channel to 10 (why, BTW, do you set the channel twice??), and set its output to the DR 008 (which has Dry Studio Kit loaded). I set SONAR's MIDI input to the MK-361C. I'm getting velocity-controlled (i.e., louder/softer) drum hits from the right keys. So far, so good!

The problem: there is a horrible and unpredictable lag between when I hit the key and when I hear the sound, so that it's impossible to actually lay down a beat. The notes are all over the place. What did I do wrong???


Thanks!

Larry

[tubedude]

Move your latency slider down, should clean you right up.
If you installed DR-008 after Sonar, you need to install the plug-in pack again and that will keep you bugless.