In search for the Golden Channel (C'mon you pansy!)

[Chris Fallen]

I'm finally looking for that 'gold vocal channel.' Pretty simple thread. My price range will be around 1k, give or take a few hundred depending on drastic improvements in quality.

I don't know too much about 'higher end' stuff. Right now I just have an M12 that I put everything through. 2 RNCs. Lexicon MPX1. Mics include v67, 603s, 57s, etc (I'm picking up a new mic after the preamp).

It's the usual "I'd like the best bang for my buck and to record everything sounding great and perfect no matter what the voice is," but I want to skip right past the RNP/Grace101 range and hit the grand.

List, link, or discuss. Play ball!

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by Chris Fallen
I'm finally looking for that 'gold vocal channel.' Pretty simple thread.

Seems like it on the surface.
Thing is: you're talking about an entire channel, not just a mike or a pre or a converter, or sample rate, bit quality, dithering options, cables, power source, room acoustics or any of a $hit load of other parameters.

So its really not that simple. Plus, if you ask a hundred people their idea of a golden chain, you'll likely get a hundred different answers. For instance, $1000 wouldn't come close to my idea of a "Golden Channel".

If it were me, and I were doing a smooth, silky kind of crooner, without getting rediculas, I'd like something like this:

Microphone: Sound Delux U195 or RCA 77DX
Mic-pre: Neve 1084 (I'd be happy with a nice clone)
Converter Lucid or Apogee 96K
Cables Beldon or Canare
Recorder Nuendo at 24bit
Room Anything designed by John Sayers!

I'm not going to give any links 'cause, if you don't know what I'm talking about..... I got no use for ya!




















(kidding about the last part)

[Chris Fallen]

See. I knew I was going to get this response. Let's say then you get to choose a pre (I lied, I said channel trying to sound all cool when I really just mean a pre) that can be up to 12 or 1300. What would you like? Why? Link me and let me read about it. It can actually have EQ or not, I just noticed I don't have any eq stuff (am I going to have to buy a Speck? WHY?! That Behringer box says it's waaaaay better than anything nobody's heard of).

The only real point of this thread is for people to namedrop so I have an idea of what to look at since I have no idea about pres in that price range (most of the stuff talked about on here is $500 or less).

Hopefully I'll get those 100 replies, that'll give me something to do all day at work!


AND I'VE GOT NO USE FOR YOU EITHER!!! ::kicks sand in your face::


Oh, wait.. At the end you said you were kidding...



::runs::

[Michael Jones]

Ok.
Pre's: I'm going to give a few options. Some I have, others I've heard, some I've only heard of, but this is a "Golden Pre" thread right, so I get to take some artistic license and recommend things I haven't heard.


That's an Audix 35102 A pair of them actually. On board EQ. Same points as the Neve 33114... think.
Why that one? 'Cause its mine. And I know it inside and out.
If you can find them, racked, you could probably get a single channel for $1000 or so.


That's an API 312, with Jensen transformers. Honestly, I haven't tried it on vocals yet, but it shines on piano, and I hear they're great for drums too. It does seem to have an extended top end that might sound harsh on a .... nasaly vocalist. Single channel: $900.

http://www.mercenary.com/m5purclaspre.html
This one breaks the top end of your budget by a hundred and fity bucks or so, but, I got a "Get Outta Jail Free Card" or two, I'm going to use here.
I've heard its big brother, the Avalon 2022.

It'd be hard to go wrong with something like this:

Great River ME-1NV
I've never heard it. I know it only by its reputation. $1075 for a single channel. I wouldn't hesitate to roll the dice on that, having not heard it. I think I'd pick up the 2 channel version, but you didn't give me enough money to spend.

http://www.brentaverill.com/1272/1272_1_p.htm
Neve model 1272. $1089 single channel. Need I say more?

Well, that'll give you some things to look at.

If you could double your budget we could really go pre shopping!!

[c7sus]

A used Avalon 737 should fall into the $12-1300 range.

Or maybe a new Great River MP1NV.

www.mercenary.com

What mics are you looking at???

[Chris Fallen]

Thank you Michael for playing along. I know a lot of people that have been here for a long time just gave up on doing any of these cause they get asked so much.

Originally posted by c7sus

What mics are you looking at???

I don't even know yet, I haven't gotten that far. I figured I'd spend a grand on a pre before I spend a grand on a mic. I'll probably be checking out some BLUE mics. I really don't have any idea yet. Mics I'm thinking of that I want to get are: an SM7, AKG 414.. Some type of tube mic. Senn... crap. What's that one that's silver and looks phallic? Maybe a 421 or something? I forget the number.

Originally posted by Michael Jones


That's an Audix 35102 A pair of them actually. On board EQ. Same points as the Neve 33114... think.
Why that one? 'Cause its mine. And I know it inside and out.
If you can find them, racked, you could probably get a single channel for $1000 or so.

What do you mean by 'same points?'

I actually never expected an Audix to be mentioned.

[Rev E]

The answer to your question also depends on the style of music you intend to do.

Someone above mentioned the Brent Averill (Neve) 1272. I'd also suggest looking at the Vintech 1272 (Neve clone). Atlas Pro Audio (Nathan Elred) sells it. I'm not sure if Fletcher at www.mercenary.com sells it. For about $1200, you get two (2) channels of Nevesque mic pre... A great value IMO. I'm ordering the Sebatron 2-channel tube pre on Monday (or early next week). It's about $900 for two channels of tube mic pre. The Sebatron also comes with low and high frequency switches to add bass or treble boosts (3 positions each I think).

P.S. put www.mercenary.com on the favorites bar of your web browser. They have a lot of high end stuff for later in the game when you're ready to spend more. Atlas Pro Audio has high end stuff too.

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by Rev E
The answer to your question also depends on the style of music you intend to do.

Someone above mentioned the Brent Averill (Neve) 1272. I'd also suggest looking at the Vintech 1272 (Neve clone). Atlas Pro Audio (Nathan Elred) sells it. I'm not sure if Fletcher at www.mercenary.com sells it. For about $1200, you get two (2) channels of Nevesque mic pre... A great value IMO. I'm ordering the Sebatron 2-channel tube pre on Monday (or early next week). It's about $900 for two channels of tube mic pre. The Sebatron also comes with low and high frequency switches to add bass or treble boosts (3 positions each I think).

P.S. put www.mercenary.com on the favorites bar of your web browser. They have a lot of high end stuff for later in the game when you're ready to spend more. Atlas Pro Audio has high end stuff too.

The problem (I have) with Neve (or other big name) clones is that I have no idea which 'live up' to being a clone and which don't. It makes things confusing. Bu apparently the Vintech 1272 is a good one?

What would you compare the Sebatron to?

(I already have Mercenary bookmarked, I go there when I want to drool)

[Middleman]

Great River ME-1NV

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by Middleman
Great River ME-1NV

I heard those are good for rock style stuff (Great River stuff)?

[Middleman]

Use this link http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...V&pagenumber=1 . Read the response from subspace about 1/2 way down the page and a few comments below that by NathanEldred. Also this is a good discussion on several preamps in that price range.

I have played with the ME-1NV and its my next purchase. It can go from lightly warm to really colored as the guys above point out. I would add pop and rock to the list and maybe country ballad warm.

If your thinking Nora Jones or something extremely clean then its not the one. What kind of music are thinking about here?

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by Chris Fallen
Thank you Michael for playing along. I know a lot of people that have been here for a long time just gave up on doing any of these cause they get asked so much.

What do you mean by 'same points?'

I actually never expected an Audix to be mentioned.

Don't confuse that Audix with the makers of the cheaper drum pack mics.
Audix made Broadcast consoles for the BBC... back in the day...(mid to late 70's I think)
So did Neve. Legend has it: Audix employees were disgruntled Ex-Neve employees that broke out on their own to start their own company.
The 35102 is a sleeper pre. Those that know it, know how musical it sounds.

By "Same Point" I mean the same EQ points or frequency ranges.
It also has up to 80 db of gain, well, by the scale anyway; you know, like if a car has a speedometer that goes up to 140? Doesn't mean that car will go 140!
That pre'll easily do 65 - 70 though, nice and clean too, and the EQ really lets you shape your sound.

Hmmm... Looks like they've gone up in price:
http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com/complist.html#audix

A little more history on them here:
http://www.mojopie.com/blackbox2.html
Special thanks to "ozraves".
(8th or 9th paragraph down)

You can read what Vintage King Audio says about them here:
http://www.vintageking.com/used_deta...nventoryID=418

Here's a pair racked by "Boutique Audio" for Vintage King.
http://www.vintageking.com/data/Audi...ue_rack(2).jpg
I think the Averill racks look better though.

[Rev E]

Originally posted by Chris Fallen The problem (I have) with Neve (or other big name) clones is that I have no idea which 'live up' to being a clone and which don't. It makes things confusing. Bu apparently the Vintech 1272 is a good one?

What would you compare the Sebatron to?

(I already have Mercenary bookmarked, I go there when I want to drool)

Chris,

I wouldn't worry too much about which one sounds most like a real Neve. There's quite a healthy debate among those who own and use Neve preamps as to what a real Neve sounds like. From what I understand each of the clones (Vintech, Great River, Aurora, Phoenix) sound something like the "real" Neves. All are very good pres that would float your boat regardless. Some have a few more useful features, like the Great River. It has a few switches for impedance loading... stuff that changes the tone. Some of the tone changes are rather dramatic from what I understand.

Personally, I've never used any of the clones. I have rented a 1272 in the past. Great sound (even for a preamp that was originally designed as a talkback pre). Any of these pres would be a noticeable step up from where you are currently. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

As far as the Sebatron, I don't really know what it compares to. I'm buying it on faith, based on a few comments from others who have bought it. I figure I don't want to buy it once everyone finds out about it and the price increases dramatically (something I hear is in the works).

[ozraves]

for use mostly on vocals...

i like the a designs mp-2. it's tube. it puts a big image in the monitors. it's got a nice low end. one of the guys at gearslutz (one of those big name young engineer/producer guys who wants to remain anonymous) said:

***

If you are looking for a pre/di in one unit, the MP-2 (or MP-1) is another excellent choice. It's been on the front end of my vocal chain since I got it. Very, very clean sounding, which may or may not be what you are looking for. Personally I like being able to crank up a tube pre and not get the noise normally associated with it. It also reacts great with ribbon mics. The MP-2r is designed for ribbons with an extra 15 db or so of gain. Royer worked with A design's on it. I have the 122's so I don't find that I need the extra gain. Sidenote: the president of A Design's plays bass

***

Steve
www.mojopie.com

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by Michael Jones
Don't confuse that Audix with the makers of the cheaper drum pack mics.

Haha. You better believe I did. That's why I was kind of confused.

Originally posted by Michael Jones

Hmmm... Looks like they've gone up in price:
http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com/complist.html#audix

I do admit that 3500 is a little bit more than 1k...

Originally posted by ozraves
for use mostly on vocals...

i like the a designs mp-2. it's tube. it puts a big image in the monitors. it's got a nice low end. one of the guys at gearslutz (one of those big name young engineer/producer guys who wants to remain anonymous) said:

***

If you are looking for a pre/di in one unit, the MP-2 (or MP-1) is another excellent choice. It's been on the front end of my vocal chain since I got it. Very, very clean sounding, which may or may not be what you are looking for. Personally I like being able to crank up a tube pre and not get the noise normally associated with it. It also reacts great with ribbon mics. The MP-2r is designed for ribbons with an extra 15 db or so of gain. Royer worked with A design's on it. I have the 122's so I don't find that I need the extra gain. Sidenote: the president of A Design's plays bass

***

Steve
www.mojopie.com

Something new to look into. The only problem I see with this is that it's two channel. That means the quality will be more around 500 a channel instead of 1k a channel, so that probably makes a difference. Have you compared it to any of the other pres mentioned in this thread? Does it hold it's how against great rivers and the like? If so it might be a good idea. Two good pres are always better than one good pre.


I went to the thread Middleman gave me and a lot of people are mentioning OSA stuff. Does anybody have any experiences with them?

Also, what about the Speck stuff? Mercenary is selling a channel strip (Pre and EQ) for 1200.

http://www.mercenary.com/spchst.html

Looking on Ebay I've found a Vintech (a few, actually) 1272 for around 1200 buy it now.

[Rev E]

Look into Atlas Pro Audio at www.atlasproaudio.com I think they have the Vintech 1272 for $1250, so you only save $50 on ebay... Watch for the return policy and guarantees.

[ozraves]

Originally posted by Chris Fallen
Something new to look into. The only problem I see with this is that it's two channel. That means the quality will be more around 500 a channel instead of 1k a channel, so that probably makes a difference.

Here's a review of the MP-2:
http://www.adesignsaudio.com/ADesigns_July.pdf

The best price on the one-channel version (MP-1) is $900. The best price on the two-channel version (MP-2) is $1,250.

Your analysis of price per channel is not a valid one. The API 3124+ goes for $2,500. It's a four-channel mic pre. It's price per channel is the same as the MP-2 ($625 per channel). The API 3124+ is a top end pre at that price. The A Designs MP-2 is a top end pre as well. It can be done.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by ozraves
Here's a review of the MP-2:
http://www.adesignsaudio.com/ADesigns_July.pdf

The best price on the one-channel version (MP-1) is $900. The best price on the two-channel version (MP-2) is $1,250.

Your analysis of price per channel is not a valid one. The API 3124+ goes for $2,500. It's a four-channel mic pre. It's price per channel is the same as the MP-2 ($625 per channel). The API 3124+ is a top end pre at that price. The A Designs MP-2 is a top end pre as well. It can be done.

Steve
www.mojopie.com

Thanks for correcting me on that. I made a (wrong) assumption based on price per channel.


What about the Brent Averill stuff?

http://www.brentaverill.com/neve_pre/

He's selling "Classic Neve Pres" for $1100. He's got his own stuff for $1000.

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by Chris Fallen
Thanks for correcting me on that. I made a (wrong) assumption based on price per channel.


What about the Brent Averill stuff?

http://www.brentaverill.com/neve_pre/

The Audix 35102's and the API 312's I have were both racked by Brent. Brent and his gang are a great bunch of guys to deal with, most of them are seasoned audio geeks, like us and not some off the wall salesman.
Plus, I'm convinced that ANYTHING by Brent Averill is golden! and they hold their resale value.

[Dot]

"I'd like the best bang for my buck and to record everything sounding great and perfect no matter what the voice is,"

That's got the John Hardy M-1 Personal Mic Pre written all over it.

For your first pre and to track everything, I would not recommend anything Neve-like.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

[Rev E]

Originally posted by Dot
"I'd like the best bang for my buck and to record everything sounding great and perfect no matter what the voice is,"

That's got the John Hardy M-1 Personal Mic Pre written all over it.

For your first pre and to track everything, I would not recommend anything Neve-like.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

Thanks for mentioning this Dan! I thought about the M1 way back when I first responded to this post, but I got sidetracked and forgot to mention this one. The M1 sounds like a great choice, as it it said to be "clean with character." Dan is recognizing that the Neve sound, once used on many tracks will carry a heavy sonic signature... some of the clones may do the same thing. The Great River seems to have altered the Neve design to compensate for the low-end buildup that is common with Neves.

The M1 is a good alternative though.

[Middleman]

So Dot, what are we talking about here with the M1. I was going down that path but heard some negative things like "lack of character" regarding this unit.

So if the Great River is Neve like, is the M1 API like? Put it in perspective please.

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by Dot
"I'd like the best bang for my buck and to record everything sounding great and perfect no matter what the voice is,"

That's got the John Hardy M-1 Personal Mic Pre written all over it.

Haha. That was actually sarcasm.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look into this one, too.

[darrin_h2000]

Im curious on how the Toft pre will perform when it hits and starts getting reviewed. after all Malcom Toft designed the API stuff and now 2 channels are going to come out at under a grand.
that Steven Paul mic should be interesting too.

[Chris Fallen]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000
Im curious on how the Toft pre will perform when it hits and starts getting reviewed. after all Malcom Toft designed the API stuff and now 2 channels are going to come out at under a grand.
that Steven Paul mic should be interesting too.

Are you talking about this one?

http://www.mercenary.com/toaudeat.html

For a grand you get two channels with EQ and Compression. Sounds pretty nice. I wonder what the quality is like?


Okay, here's the list I have right now of pres to look into more:

Audix 35102.............................................around $1000?
Brent Averill 1272.....................................$989
API 312....................................................$900
Great River MP1NV...................................$1,075
Neve Model 1272.....................................$1,089
Vintech 1272............................................$1,250
Sebatron vmp-2000e...............................$995
Speck MicPre 5.0 ASC EQ (Racked)...........$1,250
John Hardy M-1 (Racked)..........................$1,050
A Designs MP-2.........................................$1,199

I haven't really double checked the prices yet, I just looked them up once.