Mixers w Phantom & Preamp

[junplugged]

Hi, I've been looking around for mixers w/ xlr, phantom, and preamp. For mixing 3 mics for acoustic and vocal recording into a DAW.

So far I found Behringer (1202), Alesis 12 rack, and Yamaha.
The Nady I saw had not preamps.

The Alesis rack is a space saver, but a little more inconvieninet w/ the connectors on the rear. Price is still ok, especially if it's far superior to others, but I don't know.

I'll be looking for more, but wondering if anyone has experience with the Alesis and Yamaha MG10/2 10-Input Stereo Mixer - that one's $99 at MF, hard to believe, the Berry is $79 and Alesis is $279.

[junplugged]

Forget the Yamaha small format mixer 10/2, non-rack, because a single switch controls phantom power for all 4 inputs. Even the larger ones are same.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that you don't want to use a dynamic mic w/ phantom power, right?

[Dethska]

It's cool to use a dynamic with phantom power. It doesn't hurt the mic. You just have to be careful when unplugging and plugging. Or so I've heard.
If you do a quick search, I know this has been answered before.

[justwantyou2kno]

I have an Alesis 12R and I think it's a great little mixer. I think it sounds better than my cheap PreSonus. And being rackmount is handy.

[christiaan]

Originally posted by Dethska
It's cool to use a dynamic with phantom power. It doesn't hurt the mic. You just have to be careful when unplugging and plugging.

That's right. Don't (un)plug any mic (dynamic or condensor) with phantom power switched on.

[John Mayes]

I'm selling this Peavey 2002-12 rq mixer..sells new for $650 but I'm starting the bidding at $250 with no reserve....it is used but in excellent condition..works perfectly...

here is a link to the auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2550708874

[Garry Sharp]

The new Yamaha MG series mixers are excellent. (I have the 12/4). Disregard the phantom power issue you raised above - unless you have a faulty - internally shorted - mic then it doesn't matter.

Go and try one - quality is way above Behri or Alesis. In fact I'd advocate going for the 12/4 - just a few extra dollars, you've got sliders instead of knobs, you can learn how a proper mixer works (I did) and sure as hell you'll want those extra channels one day.

Just my .02p

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by christiaan
That's right. Don't (un)plug any mic (dynamic or condensor) with phantom power switched on.

Hi

I don't think that it hurts a dynamic mic to be plugged or unplugged into 48v because the voltage is applied common mode so there's no discernable potential difference across pins 2 and 3.

Every vintage Neve console I can remember had the 48v permanently attached to the mic inputs. The only way you would be able to turn it off (which nobody did that I'm aware of) was to unplug the power supply.

The first Neve console that I'm aware of that had a phantom power switch... and even then a master switch across the whole on the channels... was the 54 range that had a slide switch next to their XLR's. I think that the later, bigger (12 and 16 channel) 54's had a slide switch per XLR... a definite first for Neve!

A lot of folk wire the spare switch on a 1081 as a phantom power on/off.

I don't think the XLR's on the Neve consoles could hurt microphones of any sort... but external mic cables wired by idiots might!



Geoff Tanner
www.auroraaudio.net

[junplugged]

Thanks for the responses, I just got back from the Jamfest!

It was awesome....

Well, I guess i'll start my search over again and disregard any info on the phantom, and just make sure a board has one, and go from there.

In which case, it opens up a whole lot of options.

I wonder why my ART pre has a switch for phantom pwr if it's ok to be on all the time.

What's the diff how it goes into the dynamic anyway? by a plug or a switch? Same 5hit unless the plug can connect the leads in the wrong sequence in stead of all at once...

[Paj]

You might want to spend the extra $30 and opt for the UB1204---you'll end up with a lot more signal routing flexibility and control, LoZ and HiZ outs, and no wall-wart.

For the same price that you pay for the UB1202, you can get their MX802A, which pretty much matches the signal routing features of the UB1204 and has more features than the UB1202.

Their manuals are available on line.

Good luck,
Paj
8^)

[junplugged]

There's good info, thanks. I'll go check them out. a few more bucks up front usually is better in lthe long run, i've kicked myself a few times for not spending a bit more on some stuff... -j.

[acorec]

Originally posted by Geoff_T
Hi

I don't think that it hurts a dynamic mic to be plugged or unplugged into 48v because the voltage is applied common mode so there's no discernable potential difference across pins 2 and 3.

Every vintage Neve console I can remember had the 48v permanently attached to the mic inputs. The only way you would be able to turn it off (which nobody did that I'm aware of) was to unplug the power supply.

The first Neve console that I'm aware of that had a phantom power switch... and even then a master switch across the whole on the channels... was the 54 range that had a slide switch next to their XLR's. I think that the later, bigger (12 and 16 channel) 54's had a slide switch per XLR... a definite first for Neve!

A lot of folk wire the spare switch on a 1081 as a phantom power on/off.

I don't think the XLR's on the Neve consoles could hurt microphones of any sort... but external mic cables wired by idiots might!



Geoff Tanner
www.auroraaudio.net

And in the early 80s, the Space Shuttle did not have a safety valve or Heat tiles that stayed on the thing. Later the shuttle blew up. Today, they fixed these problems.
So, Neve was not PERFECT and if you plug in and unplug condensor mics with phantom power on, you will eventually blow the pre/mic or both. Yes, the power is on both pins, but you cannot be sure that you connect both pins at EXACTLY the same time. Also, the connection surge can easily surpass the 48 volts by 3X.

[TexRoadkill]

Like Acorec says it is best to turn on Phantom after the mic is plugged in (but I have never bothered with being that anal and have never ruined anything). You can also hurt ribbon mics and some tube mic PSUs with phantom power.

I wouldn't bother with any mixer of lesser quality than a Mackie 1202 but that's just my opinion.

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by acorec
And in the early 80s, the Space Shuttle did not have a safety valve or Heat tiles that stayed on the thing. Later the shuttle blew up. Today, they fixed these problems.
So, Neve was not PERFECT and if you plug in and unplug condensor mics with phantom power on, you will eventually blow the pre/mic or both. Yes, the power is on both pins, but you cannot be sure that you connect both pins at EXACTLY the same time. Also, the connection surge can easily surpass the 48 volts by 3X.

Hi

I can't see a connection between a space shuttle and a Neve so I don't follow your logic... plus, who said that a Neve was perfect? If you go to my site you'll read many hints and stories saying quite the contrary!

Sure, knowledge is relative to time, and I might add that vintage Neve phantom power resistors were 18Kohm 0.1% rather than the 6.8Kohm you see nowadays... mainly because newer condensor mics need more power.

Let's just say that for over ten years, folk a lot smarter than me disagree with the premise of damaging the mic by plugging or unplugging it live.

I'm quite an expert on back EMF because I have qualifications that include dc and ac theory. Neve consoles are full of little diodes and tricks to minimise the effect of back EMF from the magnetic field of a relay coil collapsing. The relay is part of a hard wired circuit and I don't think that the equivalent situation occurs with the common mode application to the transformer in the mic.

Still, I don't claim to be a microphone expert... how many cases have you personally known of mics blowing up after being plugged into a vintage Neve console? We have had a Neve 8028 here since the late 1970's without the situation occuring.



Geoff
www.auroraaudio.net