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#1
08-05-2003
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Warm Budget Pre
i need to get a decent pre b/c i had some problems with the one i have now.
on a tight budget.. under $200 so far my list goes Studio projects vtb-1 (always hear nothing but good things about it) $90-129 Behringer T1953-yea i know, the b word (i've used this pre with a u87ai and the quality came out cleaner than with a HHB. my friend still uses the 87 w/t1953) $130-175 M-Audio dmp3 (i had one for a few weeks and it just didn't give my tlm193 the sound i wanted, i never used it with my adk a51-tc $120 ART TPS (never used one but i heard some clean recordings with one) $160 the pre will be used with a Adk a51TC and i'll mainly be tracking r&b and some hiphop 
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#2
08-05-2003
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I'd go with the DMP3, then the Behringer (it's really not THAT bad of a unit)...
__________________
John Mayes Mayes Guitars www.mayesguitars.com
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#3
08-05-2003
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none of those are what i would describe as "warm". for all that is worth.
i would go for the dmp3, i think it is of the non-offensive sounding, accurate sort. warm is tuff. i would say if you can find a gaines audio pre i would go for that. it has an input transformer, which to me says "warm".
__________________
very truly yours, hugs and kisses, george.
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#4
08-05-2003
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The VTB-1 sounds somewhat better/quieter on dynamic microphones than the DMP3. They both sound "good" on condensers.
Chris
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#5
08-05-2003
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the dmp3 didn't sound good with my tlm193 and i will end up using that mic sometimes still.. so i want something i know will sound good with all my mics
Adk a51tc Se 5000 tlm193 u87ai(i have access to it but its not mine) so far its gonna be either the Vtb-1 or the T1953 unit... i've also been looking into the Roland MMP2
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#6
08-05-2003
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You know what's warm? Whatever records the source most accurately and cleanly with the widest dynamic range and bandwidth. I just don't buy into the argument that you need a tube pre to make a warm recording.
That said, of the pres you mention, I'd probably choose the VTB-1. Stay away from the Behringer stuff, just stay away. I'm not going to get into it, just don't do it. that's not where you cheap out that bad on your signal chain. Pres and converters are where you should spend you money. That's where you get your good sound. The Roland is a wild card I suppose. It looks kind of like a toy, but may surprise as far as sound, I don't know. It obviously didn't sell, because they are being blown out already, but I personally would buy the Roland over the Behringer any day. Roland makes a lot of great sounding gear, and the build quality is quite good and solid. So I'd trust that brand more. Another inexpensive pre to consider would be the Rane MS-1b. It's not tube, but that doesn't mean it can't make warm recordings. Just some random thoughts to consider!
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#7
08-06-2003
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I have to say I hate it when people use the word WARM to describe a sound or piece of gear they are looking for....sorry.
I would say the Behringer T1953 is the most musical pre amp out of the bunch. I have owned all the preamps you listed above and the T1953 is the only one that is still in my rack but here is the trick. It is a hybrid(also called starved plate) preamp meaning it is a solid state preamp with a tube in the output signal path to give you that "tube" sound. when i bought the T1953 i changed the tubes with some RCA NOS from the 70s so if i crank the warmth knob instead of getting muddy like it was doing with the stock tubes, it would get a compressed sound with the RCA tubes. when I use it these days i keep the warmth knobs to the cold setting(Off) Which i find to sound good for vocals and guitars. For $200 its your best bang for your buck. its not a Neve, Api or a great sounding tube mic preamp but i highly doubt you could find any of those for 200 bucks Overall Behringer products are hit and miss most of the time being a miss but this one piece of gear i think they did an alright job on
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#8
08-06-2003
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if you are truly serious about you vocal recordings you wouldn't want to JUST spend 200 bucks....u should at least anti up for the FMR RNP or the Grace 101....RNP would be prolly be more characterized as warm then the grace,.,,,,
__________________
"...if the opposite of pro is a con lets go beyond this, the opposite of CONgress must be PROgress..." Cage
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#9
08-06-2003
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Quote:
i would never describe "warm" as accurate and clean. i would describe that as umm. surgical. something like that. "warm" for me means.... slightly smeared top, big bottom. basically what transformers sound like. tubes dont always get you to warm. especially nowadays when tube devices run on low voltage and dont have transformers. in the transformer free ones often it will exaggerate the top a bit with some distortion. i hear people use the word "hairy" for that sound. good sound if you want it.
__________________
very truly yours, hugs and kisses, george.
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#11
08-06-2003
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we all know what we're talking about so get over it. i second (or third) the motion for the RNP. the DMP3 is nice, but the RNP is worth the cost difference.
__________________
"if you need a helping hand the best place to look is at the end of you arm." - audrey hepburn
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#13
08-06-2003
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Quote:
Quote:
Excellent tube gear can be accurate and clean. Excellent solid state gear can be accurate and clean, but that's different than surgical in both cases. Just because something is accurate and clean doesn't mean it's surgical. It just means it is capturing what's there. The old straight wire with gain concept. If the source is cold, then the recording sounds cold. If the source is warm then the recording sounds warm. I do agree that people often mix up the audio effect of tubes versus transformers. I personally feel that transformer gear makes things sound bigger, whereas tube gear softens or rounds the tone slightly. It all gets very subjective as far as describing sound in words. And I too am totally fed up with hearing this term of "warm" all the time.
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#14
08-06-2003
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C9, many pro engineers like to mix down to analog reel to reel for that
warm analog "glue". Chris
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#15
08-07-2003
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damn yall are acting as if i'm a rookie at this.. i'm not.. yes i know what PRO engineers do, a partner of mine happens to be a PRO engineer with a lot of credits with sony records
I never said that you need a tube pre to make a warm recording. i usually don't use tube pres, i usually use solid state pres... i have a nice tube mic that has a great vocal sound. i like the way the A51tc sounds over my TLM193, maybe its the tube maybe its the dynamic range...whatever the word WARM aside.. i see there is only one person on this thread that has actually used the T1953 behringer pre... its not a cheap pos.. yes i know behringer doesn't have a name usually when it comes to quality but as i said before.. with the T1953 had a much better sound than the HHB that cost 2-3x more.. Dune 5233, my friend has JJ ECC83 tubes in his 1953 with a u87ai, are those good tubes for the t1953? i'll try and get the t1953 w/JJ ECC83 tubes and the vtb-1 or MMP-2 if i can..
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#16
08-07-2003
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i like the jj tubes in any 12ax7 application. i use them in my cyber twin, my acoustiq, and any where else i can stick one in. they have very good clarity without being too bright. (notice i said nothing about the "W" word, although some may say it also has some "cool" attributes
In His Name Big Kenny * some guys prefer NOS stuff, Mullard, Phillips, RCA. I have found the quality to vary
__________________
In His Name Big Kenny
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#17
08-07-2003
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Quote:
__________________
"if you need a helping hand the best place to look is at the end of you arm." - audrey hepburn
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#18
08-07-2003
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Quote:
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#19
08-07-2003
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C9, sorry if my post seemed to indicate any criticism, as it was meant only to be helpful. With all the emphasis on digital nowadays, sometimes creative analog ideas get lost in the shuffle.
I have the VTB-1 and like it very much. If you get it though, save any "tube blend" for occasional use (at most) during mixing. Best of luck, Chris
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#20
08-07-2003
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Quote:
Yes I have seen it happen. I'm not going to name the studio or the producer who did the slapping but it did happen. It was very tense but very funny and well deserved
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#21
08-07-2003
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I never used JJ ECC83 but have heard good things about them.
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#22
08-07-2003
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you're killing me here. "Slapped?"
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#24
08-09-2003
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ii'm gonna go pick up a vtb-1 today..
should i use it with the tube blend or just try some settings til it sounds good.. like i said before, i'm gonna use it with a Adk A51TC as my main vocal mic with a tlm193 backing it... o and should i put a JJ ECC83 tube in it?
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#25
08-11-2003
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Wouldn't he be a lot more qualified than guys like us? I assume he's busy?
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