Does your sequencer/keyboard transmit GM?

[Paj]

All:

When playing a GM file in from your hardware (not computer-software-based) sequencer or keyboard's sequencer, is the GM info also transmitted/echoed at the MIDI OUT port.

I would really appreciate hearing from you about this. I want a dedicated keyboard or sequencer that can play GM MIDI files but also send the data steam via MIDI, so that I can control other MIDI devices by embedding MIDI info in the GM sequence.

This is not a problem with, say, Cakewalk and a laptop, but a surprising number of hardware sequencers do not send anything over the MIDI out when a GM sequence is playing! Manufacturers do not include this info in specs (or even manuals).

I really need to hear from you if you know or have any experience with this. If you know of hardware that does transmit GM data, please post.

Thanks,
Paj
8^?

[dafduc]

I'll admit limited knowledge here, so you may be on to somerthing I'm not aware of...

...but I thought GM was just a standardized configuration so a midi file could be played on different hardware and get a similar sound. So I'm not aware of a "GM file" per se, just a midi file (type 0 or 1).

But I'm ready to be educated...

Daf

[Paj]

dafduc:

Thanks for the reply.

You are correct (most commercially available SM files are GM) but there appears to be an undocumented issue with keyboards and sequencers that play GM files---everything stays internal and the MIDI out port transmitts no note on/off data, cc data, or patch change data. Timing data is usually OK to send/receive. It seems like everything except clock is sent to the internal sound module and only the internal sound module.

Thanks,
Paj
8&)

[dafduc]

Would a cheapy dedicated HW sequencer solve it? I mean, there'd be no internal sound, it would HAVE to send it out. I bet you could find a perfectly working used floppy-based sequencer for under $100. Or one of those old Yamaha midi 286 laptops...

Daf

[Paj]

dafduc:

I'm using a Gateway laptop with a Celeron & Cakewalk now. This is not a studio problem for me---it's a live performance problem. The problem is: lose power (or have the frontman pop a cord with his feet) and you have a couple of minutes boot time, as oposed to seconds with a piece of dedicated hardware. I need a second alternative (two of my keyboards and one of my hardware sequencers also have 3.5"FDD and play GM/SMF, but nothing is sending MIDI data (except clock) out the MIDI OUT when playing the GM sequence---it's like they all default to the internal sound module and only that. I can't echo the sequence to the MIDI OUT!

Does anybody have any experience with the Yamaha QY100?


Paj
8^?

[dafduc]

I'm not going to be able to answer most of your question...

...but your HW sequencer MUST be playing something externally, unless it has internal voices. In which case I'd imagine you'd be calling it something other than a sequencer.

Thinking back, I did encounter this same issue with my old Yam TQ-5. For each track, I had to choose between internal and external, it would never just do both. Lame...

Daf

[DonF]

Originally posted by Paj
The problem is: lose power (or have the frontman pop a cord with his feet) and you have a couple of minutes boot time, as oposed to seconds with a piece of dedicated hardware.

You might consider getting a UPS like THIS ONE for less than the cost of a hardware sequencer.

[groover_jon]

mmmm.... strange. I use the onboard sequencer in my Trinity live and can set each track for internal, external or both and it works. I have an older ensoniq keyboard with onboard sequencer with the same options available. I would have thought you could send the sequence midi out with your sequencer. I never heard of this before. Is this a limitation of the Yamaha QY100? Sorry I can't suggest anything.

[subtractor]

I may not understand you fully but it sounds like you need to try the midi thru from the 2nd device...

[DonF]

I can't echo the sequence to the MIDI OUT!

Make sure the "TO HOST" switch on the back of the unit is set to the "MIDI" position, and make sure that the MIDI CONTROL setting on the Utility menu is set to "Out" or "In/Out".

[Paj]

Dafduc:

Yes---that's the problem! Internal v. external but never both!

Groover_jon:

That's info I need about the Trinity and the Ensonic (the "both" option). I'm not using a QY100---I'm inquiring about it. I just downloaded the manuals for the QY100 and QY700 this morning and will be going through them shortly.

DonF:

It looks like you have a QY100. If I follow your instructions, does the QY and an external synth play at the same time?



All: My major interest is not in simultaneously sending note data but program change and cc data. Again, this is not a problem in my studio but is a problem on stage. All I want to do live, without the laptop, is send embedded patch and cc changes to the PA effects device and guitar modeling pedal (GNX, POD, V-AMP). In other words, have the sequence select and control the vocal and guitar effects at the right time. No problem with the laptop and cakewalk. The keyboards---another story.

I have keyboards but I'm not a keyboardist---on a keyboard, I'm like a monkey on a typewriter. I'm a guitarist, seeking that promise of freedom that MIDI and being wireless was supposed to bring.

I finally figured out how to embed the patch changes into an SMF/GM sequence without screwing up the instrument selection of the sequence itself (actually two ways, one of which may or may not be implemented by the manufacturer). I just need to be sure that my next sequencer/keyboard will send patch change and cc information (system common stuff) from the SMF/GM sequence out the MIDI OUT at the same time that it is sounding/playing it.

Is anybody using sequences to control vocal effects, etc., live? If so, what sequencer/keyboard are you using?

So far, the QY (100 or 700) is looking like a good option, especially because of the memory card feature---but I have to be sure that the MIDI stream from a playing SMF sequence is echoed at the MIDI OUT port on whatever unit I get.

Thanks all, for all of your responses,
Paj
8^)

[DonF]

Paj,

I don't have a QY100. I just downloaded the manual from Yamaha and found the info that I passed along to you. I wish I could tell you for sure that the internal voice and the external synth would play at the same time, but I can't. I didn't find any track setting for internal/external triggering, so I'd say there's a good possibility that it would work the way you want it to. I'll let you know if I find out anything that would indicate otherwise.

Don

[jake-owa]

In the QY70 (which is virtually identical) you just go to the system MIDI screen and chose the echo status, on or off.
Anyhow, it should be in the manual.