Paging Track Rat

[kjam22]

Hey track..... would you do me a favor and listen to a couple of minutes of a test drum mp3. And tell me what I need to do to them to make them better?

Pearl export. 2 sm81's on top. 57 on snare and two 57s on two mounted toms. Floor tom not tight miced. Beta 52 in kick. No reverb on any drum track. No compression. Some equing.

I would appreciate and value your opinion.

Thanks.... link is http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2124&alid=-1

[DrummChris]

If I could chime in...

I love the ride sound. Actually, all the cymbals sound great. The crashes are a little low in volume comparatively though. You may want to back up the overheads or hit the crashes a little harder. The snare drum and bass drum sound good. The only thing I think can use work is the toms. They have a flappy, timpani thing happening. They sound like thin, single ply heads on there. If that is indeed true, maybe some thicker single ply or two-ply heads would give you a better sound.

All in all, sounds good!

[kjam22]

Thanks for the input. The toms are the part that bugs me too. I don't think they sound that bad live..... but maybe they do. Maybe listening to them is different than listening while playing.

If a couple of new heads can get the sound I'm looking for.... then that's an easy very affordable fix.

Thanks for the input

[DrummChris]

Sure...

Don't forget the bottom heads as well. Here's a good site for head selection, tuning, etc...

http://www.drumweb.com/profsound.shtml

[kjam22]

Yeah..... I was just reading on the thread about drum heads. To be honest... this set is about a year old and has the pearl heads on it that it came with. (I'm ashamed to say)

I'm foremost a guitar player.... so I'm still learning some of the drum stuff. I'm thinking a set of coated.

I've been through the tuning stuff and I feel pretty good about that.

Thanks for your help

[DrummChris]

Yep, that's what i was hearing. Thin, stock heads are the worst things around. It would be better if the drum companies would ship the drums with no heads at all instead of those hideous things. All but the very top of the line kits come with junk heads. It stinks. Let me suggest that you check out some Aquarian heads. The studio X coated(s) to be specific. They with focus and fatten your toms instantaniously. For the resonant, try some Evans resonant.

You listed the mics that you used but what kind of recording device did you use?

[kjam22]

Thanks very much. I've been playing on a TD-7 and a roland v-session at church for a few years now. Bought this accoustic set and it's a different animal as you know. Especially recording it.

I'm off to guitar center tomorrow. I really appreciate your help.

[Track Rat]

Your cymbals sound pretty good. Overall, the drums just sound small. They don't suck at all, I mean they're not played agressively so as a result, things like the toms just kind of sit there when you roll accross them. Granted, the tune they're set in isn't like speed metel, but still, it seems to me the mics are picking up what's coming at them. There are still a few things you could try to reinforce the sound.
Where do you have the 81's mounted? X-Y? Spaced pair? Distance to the toms and cymbals? Same question on the tom mics. Also, do you have access to any Large Diaphram Condensors? Placing one in front of the kick out about 3' from the front about the same height as the top of the shell can REALLY fill in the sound of the kit.

[Bulls Hit]

You're snare sounds good, but your bass drum is inaudible - just doesn't cut through at all.

New heads will help your toms. I'd go for Remo Ambassadors - you can keep the stock Pearl heads on the resonants. If you want a deeper tom sound with good attack tune the resonants about 1/2 tone higher than the batters

[kjam22]

Originally posted by Track Rat
Your cymbals sound pretty good. Overall, the drums just sound small. They don't suck at all, I mean they're not played agressively so as a result, things like the toms just kind of sit there when you roll accross them. Granted, the tune they're set in isn't like speed metel, but still, it seems to me the mics are picking up what's coming at them. There are still a few things you could try to reinforce the sound.
Where do you have the 81's mounted? X-Y? Spaced pair? Distance to the toms and cymbals? Same question on the tom mics. Also, do you have access to any Large Diaphram Condensors? Placing one in front of the kick out about 3' from the front about the same height as the top of the shell can REALLY fill in the sound of the kit.

Thanks Bulls.....

Track.... I do have a few LD condensors. I can put a C-1 in front of it easy enough. I'm at work this morning and I don't know the exact distance on the 81's. I have moved them around a few times. The tom mics are about 5 inches off the heads.

Thanks for listening.

[Track Rat]

Here's what I've been doing lately and I like the way it works.
I take the overheads and mount them in an X-Y configuration directly over the snare drum exactly the distance of two drum sticks length from the face of the snare to the diaphrams of the mics. Tom mics out about 6-8" angled to look down at the edge of the shell. Same with the snare mic. Mic inside the kick, move it around till you like it and the LDC out about 3' like I described. Most of the meat of the sound will come from the overheads and the front mic and the kick mic. The toms and snare mic I just push up under the rest to fill in if I feel they're MIA. Parrallel compression is great to take it up another notch in horse power. I like to set up a good drum mix assigned to the main stereo buss, then also assign the kick, snare and toms tracks to a sub group and route that to a compressor and step on it hard and bring that back to the board to two channels. If you want an agressive sound, that'll do it.

[kjam22]

Thanks Track.... I will keep experimenting with mic placement.

[Dethska]

Track- How do you keep your overheads from getting in the drummers way? Two stick lengths doesn't seem very far. Where exactly do you position them? Facing what?

[kjam22]

Originally posted by Dethska
Track- How do you keep your overheads from getting in the drummers way? Two stick lengths doesn't seem very far. Where exactly do you position them? Facing what?

Yeah .... It's gonna put them right in front of my forehead unless I raise the snare.

[mrface2112]

<<How do you keep your overheads from getting in the drummers way?>>


two words: midget drummers




wade

[kjam22]

Thanks for the help guys. The new heads helped a lot.

I was watching my Eagles DVD and it looked like they were micing the toms (actually pretty much everything that I could see)with condensors. I guess a guy could spend about as much money as he wanted to on this stuff.

[Track Rat]

Most drummers don't have a problem with the mics. If you can't play around, shift them a bit but try to keep the two sticks distance from the snare and sonicly centered on the kit as a whole. By the way, I mic all the drums except the kick (which is a D-112) with condensors.

[Dethska]

You didn't really answer my question. I still don't understand where you position them. Are they really right in the drummer's face? Or out in front of the toms? Pointing down at the snare? Out at the toms? Sorry to be a pain, but I'm very interested in new (to me) techniques for micing drums. Thanks.

[Track Rat]

Two sticks doesn't put them in the drummers face. That's about 32" which would put the tip of the mics a couple of inchs above your head out in front a couple of inchs from the front of your head. Granted it's close but we're recording here. As singers have to learn to work a mic, you have to learn to play to the mics and around them.

[Dethska]

Pointed down at the snare? Or out at the edges of the kit? I don't suppose you have a picture of this setup? That would help me out a lot.

I'm not complaining about the position, I just didn't understand what you were saying. And I really want to. Thanks.

[Track Rat]

I have a kit set up in the studio now. When I get home tonight I'll take some pics of it.

[Dethska]

Hey Track, that'd be really great. I appreciate it.

[Dethska]

Did you get a chance to take any pictures yet?