anyone know of these power conditioners..(sjoko??)

[mixmkr]

here are some pics that Mr. Patchbay sent me for his 1000 watt conditioner.

Said he would get one in a little bit, as he is out of the 1000 watt version. Looks like a box to me . In other words... does Bob get a variety of these from different industrial setups for resale? Does this look like what I need for my small setup? Decent surge suppression and AC filtering?

Then I figure also getting a 500 watt for the computer (or two of 'em for two computers)

[mixmkr]

and a reverse side pic....

[sjoko2]

Topaz make extremely good conditioners, check out their homepage here: http://www.topazpower.com/
On top of that, Bobby is a completely cool and reliable guy who would never sell you anything that wasn't good.

[mixmkr]

excellent!

I didn't see anything on their power conditioners at the site, however. A lot of stuff for AC to DC, battery monitoring and stuff like that.

Yeah..Bob's website is pretty impressive.

[sjoko2]

http://www.poweruptech.com/topaz_pc.html
http://www.mgeups.com/products/pdt12...rc/pcindex.htm

[fierojoe]

What do you guys think about American Power Conversion? We use some of their stuff here at work on our servers and I really love it. They do mostly battery backup, maybe that's a little over-kill, but that's my style I guess.

[rsb]

His website says he would have 18 devices plugged into the 500watt version.

But to check the back of the devices.

So what if I plugged

Computer (300w power supply )
Monitors ( 20/20 bas powered 200w peak )
mixer ( mackie 1202 25w )

I should be safe with just one of them?

Sorry I don't own a lava lamp

PS What was the price for the 1000w

[frederic]

Originally posted by fierojoe
What do you guys think about American Power Conversion? We use some of their stuff here at work on our servers and I really love it. They do mostly battery backup, maybe that's a little over-kill, but that's my style I guess.

If you're buying an APC power strip, don't bother. Its an expensive paperweight.

If you buy a real APC UPS, especially the rack mount type units, the filtering is significantly better (and each duplex of three or four are isolated from each other), the sine waves coming out are better, and overall the system is more abusable.

If you purchase say, a 3000W unit, note that its rated capacity in time is at 1500W load, not the full 3000W. They all do that

And battery backup is a darn good thing. Remember windows, linux and macs do not like the power rudely removed, nor do hard disk recorders :-)

[fierojoe]

Originally posted by frederic
If you purchase say, a 3000W unit, note that its rated capacity in time is at 1500W load, not the full 3000W. They all do that

And battery backup is a darn good thing. Remember windows, linux and macs do not like the power rudely removed, nor do hard disk recorders :-)

I am a HUGE advocate of battery backups! I have one on my home server and my home PC, both of the APC. I'm not real good with electronics math (my father is a genious at it though), so what would you say a typical small studio pulls in terms of wattage? Your essentials, naturally. The rack, computer, board etc... I am looking into building my studio sometime next summer and I really want to have it all planned down to the last screw before the first block is set. (and yes, I know things change once you start building) It's all Computer based, maybe 2 12 space racks with various processors and pre-amps (some Tube).

[sjoko2]

Originally posted by rsb
His website says he would have 18 devices plugged into the 500watt version.

But to check the back of the devices.

So what if I plugged

Computer (300w power supply )
Monitors ( 20/20 bas powered 200w peak )
mixer ( mackie 1202 25w )

I should be safe with just one of them?

Sorry I don't own a lava lamp

PS What was the price for the 1000w

You'd be fine
I think I paid 350 for the large one

Regarding the last question........ I think I'd ask your dad to calculate how much you'd need

[fierojoe]

Originally posted by sjoko2
I think I'd ask your dad to calculate how much you'd need

Yeah, I guess I could do that, but then I have to go copy down all the power info for all my gear and the new gear I am buying and who wants to do all that! lol I was just wondering if I was getting myself into a $3000 APC or a $6000 APC, you know.

[frederic]

what would you say a typical small studio pulls in terms of wattage? Your essentials, naturally. The rack, computer, board etc...

Well, my entire studio was on two Compaq 3000W UPS's before I tore it out, but the essential items for me would have been:

1. Midi/video PC (400W)
2. "all else" PC (300W)
3. Akai DR16 x 4 (250W * 5 = 1000W)
4. Hard Drive Array for Akai's (400W)
5. 25W lamp in case the power goes out, I don't trip and kill myself.

2125W with the above.

Each of the two Compaq UPS's connect via serial to one of the PC's, even though both PC's are plugged into the same UPS. This is okay because I have the PC's configured to shut down in 5 minutes after receiving a "no power" signal from the UPS's serial port.

The lights go out, the PC's shut down, and I have enough time before the UPS's die to make sure no tracks are armed on the Akai DR16's. One button "All Safe" on the remote takes care of that.

Then I leave the room under the 25W light and go find something else to do :-)

[frederic]

Originally posted by fierojoe
Yeah, I guess I could do that, but then I have to go copy down all the power info for all my gear and the new gear I am buying and who wants to do all that! lol I was just wondering if I was getting myself into a $3000 APC or a $6000 APC, you know.

If you need 3000W, my advice is to buy two 3000W units, so that you can split the load between the two, and they last longer.

Also 3000W seems to be the cutoff (more or less) between 120V inputs and 220V units. Typically its less costly to run two 120V 30A circuits than one 220V 30A circuit (for a 6000W UPS).

Plus if you need 3000W, and one of your UPS's dies suddenly (as they do with age - batteries, you know) you can swing your power strips over to the other UPS and it will last 1/2 the time. But at least your important gear is protected. During a failure of one UPS.

I like redundancy, and since I have a lot of non-replacable vintage gear I'd rather spend a little extra e-bay money on a second UPS than spend 12 months trying to find, say, a Korg EX800 in good condition.

:-)

[frederic]

BTW, since I had dual UPS's, I plugged the computers and the akai DR16's into one UPS, and all the midi modules, tascam mixers, outboards and the 25W light into the other. This way possibility of hard drive noise going back into the power supplies and into the audio chain somewhere is completely eliminated.

Just a thought.

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by fierojoe
...so what would you say a typical small studio pulls in terms of wattage?

Does it really matter??
My whole studio (my current one) runs on one 25 amp breaker. And its NEVER kicked. That's all the lights, and all the gear, PC included.
25 amps, and 120 volts.
Use Ohm's Law to calculate the wattage, and you come up with 3000 watts!
I wouldn't condition for anything less than that.

Now, new construction is different story. I'll have a 200 amp service, and I think I'd like to condition the power at the terminal for the whole studio.
Same equation gives me 24,000 watts.
Is it possible to condition for that? Is it necessary?
How much would it cost?

[mixmkr]

even though you may have a 200amp service box, why would you need to "condition" the whole she-bang? What are you going to use in your studio that is going to eat up 200amps... unless you are mic'ing dryers and such for Pink Floyd experimental music. But seriously, that sounds crazy. How many circuits are you really going to be running thru your studio? I can see conditioning a couple circuits at the source at you service box, but you're not going to need ten circuits running thru your studio are you?

Otherwise, I'd think it would get fairly expensive... more than you'd want to spend I would guess.

I wonder how much hosipitals and such pay for their critical areas and installations like that.

btw...did you run your single 25amp circuit thru current setup? ..and what gauge wire did you use. I'm no electrician by any means (licenced, that is), but I hope you didn't stick a 25 amp breaker with 10 gauge wire, split off into a bunch of 15 amp plugs with 14 gauge. The 25 amp breaker seems like an odd size to me....unless you have a heavy appliance or something like that for which that circuit was specifically dedicated for.

also, 3000 watts might be an overkill for a lot of people with small setups, and they might be able to cut their conditioning costs in half by not going with such a large power rating.

[Michael Jones]

Sorry. Its a 20 amp circuit.
I didn't run any conduit. It just so happens that my current studio (room) is all on one circuit. I didn't build this house, so I have no idea what gague wire it is, but I'm sure it conforms to the NEC.

Here's how the new studio will be broken down:

Control Room Lights - 1 20amp circuit
Control Room Outlets - 1 20amp circuit

Drum & Vocal Lights and outlets - 1 20amp circuit

Tracking Room Lights - 1 20amp circuit
Tracking Room Outlets - 1 20amp circuit

Kitchen, Bath, Storage - 1 20amp circuit

Mech (HVAC) - 1 50amp circuit


OK, so maybe I don't need to condition the kitchen/bath and mechanical (although, I thought I read that it would be wise to condition the kitchen, primarily because it'll have a 'fridge and microwave) but that's still 130 - 150 amps to condition at 18,000 watts maximum.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, mixmkr, but I thought as long as we were on the subject.....)

[mixmkr]

Originally posted by Michael Jones

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, mixmkr, but I thought as long as we were on the subject.....)

hey...all is fair in love and war... and you still love me, right??

see my reply in your masons thread too.


It is probably good to break up all those circuits like you have. I don't know the correct answer for that. But as you know, you'll have PLENTY of safety margin on some of those circuits... Unless the drummer comes in with some 220V poweedr drum riser that is intergral to holding up his cymbals and needs the 3000 watt par cans so he can work up a sweat!!


by any means, I'll be interested to hear some answers from those in the know...

[fierojoe]

Originally posted by Michael Jones
Same equation gives me 24,000 watts.
Is it possible to condition for that? Is it necessary?
How much would it cost?

Yes it is possible, but I believe 24,000 Watts is a little over-kill... Not everything in the studio is going to have to be run through the power conditioner. In my new studio layout, I am going to run all of the building controls (i.e. HVAC, Security, most of the lighting) un-conditioned. Only the studio is going to be conditioned, and I have found a place that will sell me a new 15,000 Watt Topaz 800 for a tad over $4,000. I don't have it here in front of me, but if you would like the contact info, I'll post it up here. On top of that, my critical stuff (Recorders, PCs and other things that don't like to have power dropped suddenly) are going to be split between 2 APC 3000 Watt battery backups with 1 additional battery each. This should give me almost 1 hour of run-time on most of my rack gear to either "Wait it out" or shut everything down properly without draining the batteries to nothing, as lead-acid batteries don't really like that very much.

[frederic]

My whole studio (my current one) runs on one 25 amp breaker. And its NEVER kicked. That's all the lights, and all the gear, PC included.

Being a gear slut (cough) I have to have two 20A breakers minimum for my home studio. No choice in the matter unless I have a super-sale on e-bay.

And I may do that, there are so many modules that I have that power up, blink their LED's, and receive so little midi data these days.

Use Ohm's Law to calculate the wattage, and you come up with 3000 watts! I wouldn't condition for anything less than that.

Can I ask why not? All you need is a compressor (fridge, freezer) or an electric drill being used and it might go right into your audio stream.

BTW, you only get drill noise when the take is absolutely perfect after 50 tries

Now, new construction is different story. I'll have a 200 amp service, and I think I'd like to condition the power at the terminal for the whole studio.

12,000W UPS can be provided in a 10U container, for a mere 1 buck per watt list price.

http://www.hp.com
UPS R12000 XR, N+x
Rated at 12000 VA / 12000 Watts, this 10U rack UPS has modular “N+x” parallel redundant design, hot-swappable modules, automatic bypass, superior batteries; and patented wireless paralleling technology providing high system availability
Compatible with All rackmount ProLiant BL, DL and ML lines

Part Number 207552-B22

APC I'm sure has a less costly model, but their website was down, so i went to HP just to give you a rude ballpark.

Now Michael, you calculated out that you need 24,000 watts, but I'd bet a good portion of that is not computer, audio, and midi gear, as you'll have lighting, doorbells, the need to plug in hand drills on occasion (to load and unload racks ), maybe a stove/fridge/dishwasher of you have a small snack area in your studio's lounge, and things of that nature that really don't need conditioned power. You'd also want to double the outlets, using colored duplexes (usually red) to indicate the outlet is on the UPS, and an ordinary black (or brown or white) outlet to indicate its on the mains, not UPS. the non-red outlets is what future construction crews should use, not the UPS ones.

Another option, if you have the rack space, is to purchased smaller rackmount units in the 2000-3000 watt range, and plug your critical gear into those, and feed the UPS 110V @ 30A getting 110V 20A out. A few of those might solve the problem too, and you don't have to deal with hardwiring a 12,000W unit, which will generate some serious heat, have many fans and such, and require a seperate room thats ventilated.

Once you're in the commercial power area you're talking serious hardware, with serious environment requirements, and don't expect to move them with four big guys

Hope I helped without scaring you!
The last data center I built, I had a 6000A UPS, which was about 2600 sq feet in itself, including row after row of batteries

[Michael Jones]

A buck a watt, at even 15,000 - 18,000 watts is WAY out of my price range!

But I like the idea of rack mounted UPS style units. That sounds MUCH easier, and more doable.

I'm not sure if this matters, but I'll only have single phase power. 3 phase power is unobtainable in a residential area. The power company simply WILL NOT give it to you.

[frederic]

A buck a watt, at even 15,000 - 18,000 watts is WAY out of my price range!

I figured, but I put some information there just in case.

But I like the idea of rack mounted UPS style units. That sounds MUCH easier, and more doable.

If you have the rack space, its a very good idea. Some of the APC units are smaller than they used to be, only 2U. Every U available for gear is good

I'm not sure if this matters, but I'll only have single phase power. 3 phase power is unobtainable in a residential area. The power company simply WILL NOT give it to you. [/B]

Yep, that matters big time. Most of the larger UPS (10,000W and up) require two or three phase power, and are spliced in.

Depending on your neighborhood, if you get two power drops, often they are taken from opposite phases on the pole to balance the load on the power grid.

Not that I'm recommending getting two 200A drops and wiring devices across both of them for more than one phase, thats a serious no-no

(cough)

yes, its been done lol.

When selecting a UPS, try to find one that doesn't have so many fans in it - they will drive you crazy. I've got a few tricks to that problem, but it requires soldering and monkeying with the unit a bit. I did this to my pavilon PC too - I installed additional fans, but in series with the existing fans plus my new fans, I installed a string of diodes in series, so all the fans spin at a slower speed. i can still hear them, but its nowhere near as annoying when the studio is dead quiet.

[David Artis]

Living in the lightning capital of the world (Tampa, Fl.) we have tried several items over the years and currently use and very pleased with Equi Tech products.

Check out their web site at:

http://www.equitech.com/

If see a model you like ask if they have any that are blemished. You cab save up to 30-40% of the cost.

[TexRoadkill]

Here's a price list for a bunch of Topaz conditioners. They seem a bit high and call it the base price so I assume they will go down a bit.

http://omnicontrols.com/lists/topaz-PowerCond.htm

Model 500VA • 63615-10 • Basic Price $680.00

Model 500VA • 63625-10 • Basic Price $690.00

Model 1000VA • 63611-10 • Basic Price $789.00

Model 1000VA • 63621-10 • Basic Price $850.00

Model 2000VA • 63612-10 • Basic Price $1330.00

Model 2000VA • 63612-20 • Basic Price $1330.00

Model 2000VA • 63522-20 • Basic Price $1460.00

Model 2000VA • 63522-10 • Basic Price $1460.00

Model 3000VA • 63613-20 • Basic Price $1990.00

Model 3000VA • 63633-20 • Basic Price $1990.00

Model 3000VA • 63523-20 • Basic Price $2150.00

Model 3000VA • 63643-20 • Basic Price $1990.00

Model 5000VA • 63654-20 • Basic Price $3950.00

Model 5000VA • 63664-20 • Basic Price $3950.00

Model 5000VA • 63524-20 • Basic Price $3950.00

[TexRoadkill]

Michael, This might be what you need

15,000va for $1250

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=4665