How about this mix? - paintball song

[eyesore]

I would appreciate any comments on this mix: Paintball Song Never really named the thing. A little history: I found this little poem from my one friend about his paintball experience that weekend on the yahoo IM that he sent while I was away from the computer. I thought, what the heck---

I don't know why, but the end seems to have gotten cut off, but that is right about where it ends, anyway - it's a short one.

Thanks.

[Toki987]

not bad at all. the mix is very w i d e .
could you give a little background on the mix, tools, instruments?

[fprod south]

No mix comments - this rocks! Love those vocals! Great big sound you got there with them guitars.

Ok, one mix comment. Could use some more snare.

[participant]

Oooh.. scary vocals! A cheek? Ees thet a cheek seenging? Yes eet ees!! WHat's that guy? His name is vern? He shot me where it REALLY HURTS!! (Those lyrics??? )

Snare panned wide? Or to the right? A lil strange... and it's eating up a lot of real estate.

Good energy in the mix... vocs would benefit with some compression... kinda like Cyndi Lauper, without her perfect delivery... a little raw. Kick drum click sounds good. Bass isn't bad.

Another cut that "cuts out" in the middle... oh, poop

Nice rawk tune Two bits in the tip cup


Chad

[HevyD47Ca]

that is a fun listen..............
yes, thats quite abrupt at the end.
I haven't heard singing like that since zepplin's 73 tour
A real ROCK feel to this one.
No mix comments
I just liked it.

[Bass Master "K"]

LOL! The line about "watching out for Vern cause he shot me where it really hurts" takes the cake man. Having gone paintballed myself once I am glad to say I can sympathize but I can't truely feel his pain

It's funny because I listened to this one the other day, and I never would have used the word "Zeppelin" in the same sentance with this tune, but after reading HevyD47Ca's comment and relistening today I can actually see the association a bit. Vocals are a bit unorthodox but I think they work.

I thought the quality of the recording was really good. I could hear each instrument clearly. It did sound very wide, are you using something to spread the stereo field wider than usual?

[eyesore]

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I usually try to respond right when I get a post. I didn't even realize the last 3 responses were there as I was looking for the notification in my email.

I mentioned before that the last few seconds of the song got cut off upon uploading.

I am not sure what is going on with the snare. I try to take notes on everything I do so I know what is working and not etc., but it seems there is always something that I don't write down. Of course, it boils down to the fact that I would really want 'real' drums in a song such as this. I was actually trying for a big 80's kind of snare and I threw in a big reverb on there. I have 2 channels for snare in Fruity Loops both using a sample called 'snare1' panned only 9% left. One has reverb on it and the other not, I guess so I could adjust the amount of reverb. That's not what we hear though. A look at the wave form for each sample shows that they are actually different snare1's. The 1 with the reverb must be a stereo sample that was recorded to make it sound as though the snare was coming from the left. I see no other way of explaining the snare appearing to come from much further to the left. However, I haven't been able to figure out what sample that was I used. However it came about, I must have liked the wide sound at the time and used it. I used to really pan the drums wide in mixes, with the hi-hat the whole way to one side or the other (it's about 60% left in this one) and the floor tom the whole way to the opposite side. So to me this is less wide than it could be. I don't know if the snare would cut through better if I just used one sample rather than 2. Maybe that hihat is too loud and gets in the way, too.

To continue on the width idea, I did not use any plugins or effects 2 create an artificial sense of width, if that is what Bass Master was referring to, but there is more than one take of everything in that mix, with exception to the programmed drums (besides the already mentioned snare). There are five tracks of rhythm guitar spread across the stereo spectrum, and three tracks of vocals, one up the middle and one more than halfway to either side at less than half the volume of the one up the middle. There are three tracks of bass, one up the middle and one to either side, where the two to the sides have the bass rolled off steeply below 650HZ to give me more attack. I have trouble getting enough bass attack or presence normally it seems. For the first half of the guitar solo, there is just one track of the lower harmony and two of the upper harmony, and the three tracks are spread across the spectrum somehow. On the second half of the solo, there is just one melody line and I believe it was triple tracked as well.

What's even weirder is I did not mix it that way. I am usually someone who does not like submixes, but likes the control of mixing everything at once, but on this song, I submixed the multiple tracks of each instrument. This may explain some of why the vocal could be better, because I did compress it, but I only compressed the entire submix of the three vocal tracks. Maybe?

Cyndi Lauper, huh? I am gonna have to listen to "Money Changes Everything" or something now as I've never heard my voice compared to hers before. I know a lot of times I do sound a lot like Plant though, but I didn't think this was really one of them. I sang this one that way 'cause Geddy Lee doesn't anymore (of course I haven't heard any of Vapor Trails yet and I heard they went back to more of their earlier sound). Actually it started out that I was in the mood to try and do an 80's hair band kind of thing with the poem, but it seemed to evolve more into the Rush inspired thing as it went.

And the guy's name is 'Burt'! -to rhyme with 'hurts'. I guess that points to some sort of weakness in the vocal, because you want people to understand the words, but then again, I never thought MJ was saying "the KID is not my son" even though it makes perfect sense. Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I would appreciate any further comments, and welcome you to evaluate it on a professional level. Harvey? Or any of the other pros from that big long thread in one of the other forums? Again, I hope I can get a song up with a 'real' drum track soon, too. Thank you.

[TripleM]

A song about paintball. I love that.

Cool sound. I liked the energy. Great big guitar sound. Singer has a very distinctive voice - Geddy Lee-ish. Good playing.

The guitars tend to take up a lot of space and force out the vox a little bit. It was a little tough to hear everything.

Fun song...

[Pedullist]

Those vocals! Jeez!

Good fun!

[Guernica]

hey eyesore,
....I couldnt open the file... ...I dunno

I'll check back later
g

[eyesore]

TripleM, I did have one of the rhythm guitar tracks up the middle, though at little lower volume than the others. Maybe taking that track out would help the vocal then? Thanks.

[studioviols]

Sharp, piercing vocal in the beginning ... good hook.

The vocal is mixed too low, this is a pet peave of mine. You are intimate with the vocal, you could understand the words if they were mixed at a whisper, we will never understand them without listening a bunch of times and puzzling over them. You have GOOD singing skills for this genre, and good pronunciation, and we COULD understand the words, if you will mix the vocal properly.

DON'T DARE bring the vocal up louder, bring the INSTRUMENTS DOWN to let the vocal OUT ...

This is called 'creating headroom' for the vocal.

All I can understand is 'scratch my face' and I'm doing the same while I puzzle over the vocals.

If I have to struggle to understand the words in the vocal, then that is bad.
Unless you don't care about us understanding the vocal.

If you wanted a hot mix, you got it, plenty of high-end ... almost an 'earsore'.

I like the 'doubled vocal sound' here.

The guitar solo is nice, the rythm guitar and bass, and drums are TIGHT, good ensemble playing.

'shock me where it really hurts' baby ... bring those vocals up in the places where we can't make out the words ... and you may need a pair of ears that is not biased to do this.

I got that second bit of vocals on the THIRD listen ... so you know, it's a cute toon, and it has lot's of potential ...

[eyesore]

studioviols,
Thanks for the reply. Oh, I agree that the goal is for the listening audience to be able to understand the vocal and sing along with it. A person would miss a lot of the fun on this song, if they aren't understanding the words. I just didn't think that the actual level of the vocal was the problem here. If that's all it is, well, that is the easiest thing to fix. I'll have to listen to it a few more times on some other systems. Yeah, I have always wanted to try letting someone else mix one of my songs and see how it would compare. That may be something to try. Thanks again.

[studioviols]

I could be wrong here ...

Maybe it's not about bringing the instruments down to give the vocal more 'headroom' ...

Maybe the actual effects you are using on the vocal ... or the abundance of high end in your voice, and then the smashing job of taking advantage of those in the mix is interfereing in my ability to 'easily' understand the vocals.

The 'total' bandwidth of just the vocal track adds up to ... of course ... our begin able to 'hear the language' and understand what you are saying.

When you start mixing some of that bandwidth in the vocal track heavier in some areas, sibilance, not bad sibilance, but the sibilance we need to understand the vocals, get's 'morphed' and the words become something other than easily understood 'language' ...

But you sound very bright and energetic and I'm sure you'll work it out.

I think some violin on this tune, with a really heavy, excited type of 'presence', almost distortion but not quite, could fit in well. An accompanying figure, in the high registers, to really get you on the edge of your seat ... IMHO.