Are Shockmounts really necessary?

[Deen]

I've been thinking dreaming of budget condensers for
months now. Still saving. But I wonder if those "spiders"
are really needed when recording. I thought only cheap
mics like the SP B1 had them to cut costs. But I actually
saw a TLM 103 and 414 "Bulls" using clips. So I'm confused.
Some mics don't include shock mounts and it discourages me.
So what's the real story on these "spiders".

[Deen]

I meant clips on the SP B1.

[chessparov]

The B1 has an internal shock mount.
If you contact Alan Hyatt at www.pmi.audio.com he'll be able to
answer your questions. That would be based on specific application(s),
and your recording environment.

Chris

[Michael Jones]

I was recording a guy last weekend; a singer/songwriter type guitarist. Like most musicians, he was gently tapping his foot in my carpeted room to keep time. I had neglected to put the mike on a shock mount; just an over-sight on my part.

I was tracking his vocals with a TLM 103, and it came over the mike. A gentle thump . . . thump . . . thump, barely audible, but quite discernable upon solo-ing the vocal track.
Had to re-cut that take.
I think they are even more important with a costlier, more sensitive mike.

Use them. Always. Even if they're of the home-made variety.

[Deen]

It seems more complicated than I thought Chessparov.
I didn't think there were specific applications or environments that demanded shock mounts.
I used to think shock protection is only for protecting the
delicate parts of the condenser, I didn't think that applications
had anything do with it except maybe to hold up a mic. Perhaps
has something to do with the way sound vibrations travel
to the mic and gets recorded as noise. I think it's best to
get one.

Now I'm thinking all mics with clips included have internal
shock mounting. same as 414 and TLM 103?

[Deen]

Michael ,

my last post was a bit late, supposed to have been for Chessparov. But I read your post. I think it's best to get
one.

This issue just "freeked" me out when I saw some
MXL mics sold with and others without "Spiders".
They cost 34 bucks separately. Then I saw a photo
from EQ of a guitarist using the TLM 103 with only
the clip. And a 414 with a swiveling clip. So I thought
maybe the clips are fine for any application. Then Cessparov
said the B1's have it internally which explains the clip.


It's now that I realize it's best to have one. To be sure.
Even a homemade one. Thanks guys.

now to check out mr. Hyatt

[Michael Jones]

Yeah. I understand.

I think, when some mics have the shock mount "included", its really just an extra incentive for the shoper to buy the mic.

Manufacturers of mics like the TLM 103, and other higher end, higher caliber mics, really don't need to entice customers with added features. So, for that reason, they're not included.

But its important to use one. At least, I think it is.

As far as seeing a picture without one... the mic was likely a prop in the picture, the picture staged, and the photographer, not knowing anything about mics, probably said something like, "It looks better without that... thing on there..."

[BasPer]

I once recorded a choir in a limestone church from like the twelfth century, and thought that since the floor probably weights a few tonnes per square foot I would be safe without chockmounts on some of the mics. Big mistake! I ended up having to filter out the constant low frequency rumble from the traffic on the surrounding streets, and since the mics I used are somewhat bass shy from the beginning that didn't exactly help things. I won't make that mistake again...

[ausrock]

If you are going to buy B1's then get the proper shockmounts that SP make for them. That way you are covered by both the internal mount and the spider mount.

[Deen]

I'm definitely getting one. I understand perfectly. Thanks guys.

[chessparov]

"Cessparov"-I LIKE it!

Chris

[Deen]

Oops....

[DJL]

Deen, IMO it's ALWAYS a good idea to use shock mounts if you can.

[morindae]

I'm no expert in this area. However, I have been using my MXLV67G with just the clip to record vocals and acoustic guitar. I haven't had any problems.....so far.

[freshmattyp]

I was not that impressed with the B series shock mounts that SP sells, so I bought an AKG H100 shock mount on E-Bay for about 30 bucks and it works great for the SP B Series, and any other mic that is laid out that way.

[acorec]

Originally posted by Michael Jones
I was recording a guy last weekend; a singer/songwriter type guitarist. Like most musicians, he was gently tapping his foot in my carpeted room to keep time. I had neglected to put the mike on a shock mount; just an over-sight on my part.

I was tracking his vocals with a TLM 103, and it came over the mike. A gentle thump . . . thump . . . thump, barely audible, but quite discernable upon solo-ing the vocal track.
Had to re-cut that take.
I think they are even more important with a costlier, more sensitive mike.

Use them. Always. Even if they're of the home-made variety.

I agree totally. Always use them.

[Deen]

Thanks for responding guys. It's clear there are strong reasons
to get them "spiders". It's just frustrating that some budget mics
include them and others not.


It's also interesting to know morindae had no problems using clips. Maybe the clip will do until I save up for a "Spider".

[morindae]

Deen, I had no problems because I am recording in my apartment which has carpets, is three floors up, and isn't affected by vibrations from the street. Some of these other guys are way more experienced than I am, and I guess have learnt not to take chances. It seems their motto is, "if you have a spider then use it." However, if you are recording in an environment that is similar to mine and isn't subjected to any vibration then I guess the internal shockmount that comes with these mics will be enough.

[cominginsecond]

I never use a shockmount, and I've never had any problems. Ever. If you have $40-$50 to blow on a shockmount, feel free, but for my money, I'd put that $40-$50 in better cabling. I guess if you're recording people who insist on stomping on the ground while they're singing, it may be worthwhile. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Richard Monroe]

Mostly, I've found 2 main uses for shock mounts. 1.Singers/guitarists/bass players that can't stand still.
2. Recording assistants and drummers who lack control. When a mic stand gets tipped over, you'll find out what a good shockmount is worth. I agree the AKG H-100 is a great shock mount for any mic that will fit it, which includes B-1 (but not the C series), AKG C-2000,C-3000, and C414, and almost any small diaphragm condenser.-Richie

[Deen]

My room is almost like a cell. Almost surrounded by concrete,
and isolated from any sources of vibration.
But one part of the ceiling is separated from the master
bedroom upstairs by 1/4" plwood , dead air of about 2 feet
and uncarpeted wooden floor planks.
My kids make lots of noise when they play. When my wife
walks around in her nighties the floors creek when I'm not even in the room. All that noise does make a vibrating rumble now
that I think of it.

If I can't dish out the 30-40 bucks I think I'll try a home made one. I still think there's more reasons to get one than not to.

Thanks for your replies.

[DJL]

Dean, it's always better to be safe than sorry.... if you have shock mounts it's a good idea to use them.

[Son of Mixerman]

The question has answers that is situational.

Shock mounts are like bandaids, if something happens you didn't expect, its best to be able to fix the problem and move on. If you don't have bandaids you'll be bleeding on everything. I don't have shock mounts for all my mics, but a plan on getting them gradually as needed, maybe even a spare just in case something ugly happens. You can play guitar without a pick, or an amp. You can do lots of things without having certain parts of the puzzle, but I think its limiting not having those things. If you can afford it, buy it. If you have time build it.

SoMm

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by Son of Mixerman
You can play guitar without a pick, or an amp.

I definitely don't think shockmounts are comparable to a pick or an amp, because without a pick or an amp, the sound is drastically changed. Without a shockmount, the sound is not changed at all, except in very rare circumstances. I guess I keep returning to the fact that I never use shockmounts for the three years I've been recording, and that I've never, ever, ever had a problem.

[Treeline]

It's pretty basic, really. Mic stands - like anything else made of steel - will pick up vibrations from the floor and transmit them to whatever is sitting on the top. If that's a mic in a hard mount, then it goes into the mic body and something of it will register. The vibrations that tend to pass that way seem to be low frequencies - like someone walking across the stage, or traffic outside the window. A low pass filter deals with a lot of it, but not all.

If you isolate the mic form any hard connections, as with a spider, or by sitting the thing on a feather pillow, you interrupt that line of transmissions and the noise doesn't get into the signal.

I lucked out and picked up a handful of cheap Oktava shockmounts at five bucks apiece. And I mean c h e e p . Still, even after I had to fix one to make it work, they're great. I even use a spider on an SM57. Look for deals, closeouts, ebay - get yourself a box of 'em and you'll never go back.