Bass player doesnt understand drop D

[Myx62]

I recently joined a new band and the bass player doesnt understand drop D. He started tuning all his strings down a step instead of just dropping the E down to D. He has never played any drop D stuff and thats hard for me to believe..... The dude mostly plays old metal. I was a shred metal guitarist back in the 80's so I dont have a prob with the music, its just that Ive been there and done that and a few metal songs is OK as I have recorded some recently.
The dude also has some rough recordings of metal jamming like Metallicas Orion. He calls it a song? Im 40 and dont have a lot of time to waste anymore, so I hope Im not viewed as a dick, but I think the dude has to go. I have a few albums worth of material all complete , recorded and with lyrics, yet the dude seems uninterested. The rest of the band likes the songs.
Man, I didnt get back into gigin to deal with this shit again...Should I fire the dude, or just walk away and continue recording my own shit in my own studio?
Some input would be greatly appreciated.
Myx

[BPRecords]

You definetely need to kick him out.

He sounds like a person who is cock-blocking the rest of you guys' success.

[Garry Sharp]

Go with your instincts. There's a simple rule with people - if it doesn't feel right, it ain't right and probably never will be. And of course there may well be things about you that he doesn't like.

[Lt. Bob]

Gonna have to be your decision.....something like firing someone isn't something that people who have never met him (or you) can give any useful input on.
BUT......if it's your band and you're feeling this way about him.....I can't see why you should keep him. I mean, your band, your decision as to who's in there.

[crosstudio]

did you JOIN the band or FORM the band. if you joined the band and he was already in the band, then you are the dick. don't go forcing your wide view of the earth on people who are happy going through life with blinders on.

i was that dick too.

i was in this band for two years. i introduced songs and certain members of the band just wouldn't cooperate. i made an agreement with the band that if i got them gigs in the heart of the city they would play my material. i got the gigs, we played the songs, people started coming to the shows... but the band still wasn't happy.

i left, and it was a good decision.

[Myx62]

I appreciate the input. everyone had valid points. I did join the band, but as it has always been for me I write the songs and have always had the attitude of any member can write the songs as long as all the band members agree they like it. Thats means all. I have accepted songs I like from other members in the past.
I suppose I am the Dick. Ive been to nice in the past and got screwed every time. Im probably just going to go with my instincts and bail from the band. If the drummer and the singer want the dude gone also, then we may work something out.
Myx

[crosstudio]

what i don't understand is why drop D is such a big deal.

if he detunes his entire bass rather than just the E, or gets a 5-string bass and plays the 3rd fret of the low-B does it make a difference?

[Toki987]

can he pick? and is he an asset to the band? I`ve seen folks that couldn't divide 4 by 2 that could smoke a guitar or bass. It`s all in what they are familiar with. Let him try a 5 string, that takes the math part out although it takes a little practice to get comfortable.

[Bass Freak]

i dont see what the big deal is.....do you just not like the guy?



some bass players a thick...very thick....


explain it to him, in a nice way, but if he doesnt get it, get a new bass player. i hate to say it, but any retard can play drop d, and any retard can play a bass in drop d, infact, to me, drop d sounds the same. ive actually de-tuned my bass when my band was playing, and no one could tell. so hey, if it means that much to you go for it. just make sure you got another lined up before you cut him from the band. you dont wanna be left out to dry with no bottom end to fall back on



freak

[Myx62]

Originally posted by Bass Freak
i dont see what the big deal is.....do you just not like the guy?



some bass players a thick...very thick....


explain it to him, in a nice way, but if he doesnt get it, get a new bass player. i hate to say it, but any retard can play drop d, and any retard can play a bass in drop d, infact, to me, drop d sounds the same. ive actually de-tuned my bass when my band was playing, and no one could tell. so hey, if it means that much to you go for it. just make sure you got another lined up before you cut him from the band. you dont wanna be left out to dry with no bottom end to fall back on



freak

Its not the playing in Drop D thats the point. It makes it easier for me to play gtr and sing at the same time in DD and its easier all the way around. I have songs in standard E. Some are E flat. I need experience is the point and if the dude doesnt even know what DD means and looks at me funny, maybe Im on a different planet. I cant babysit anymore.... The sadest thing is I kinda like the dude.......Hes actually a gtr player and should stick with that I suppose.
I think the real point to what Im saying is why is the guy trying to write songs, yet just has some wanking shit on a cassette with no structure or lyrics and timing issues...... The big deal is experience.
Myx

[Cygnus X-1]

Originally posted by crosstudio
or gets a 5-string bass and plays the 3rd fret of the low-B does it make a difference?

yes it does..

I had a stubborn bass player who tried that and it made what would have been a simple riff in drop tuning much more difficult to play.. Eventually he had no choice but to drop it down or tune the whole thing down..

(he was booted a few months later)

[Myx62]

Well Im going to give the guy a chance the next practice and bring my bass in Drop D and he can bring his gtr in E standard.

The guy had a hard time playing in Drop D also. Confused? I dont know , but a 5 string bass is out of the question Im sure. Man I tried one of those once and they really mess with ya-lol. Im thinking of getting a 7 string with a low B. Ive tried em but wonder if they are worth the hassle of getting used to. I wouldnt bring it to rehearsel with a band though. My drummer wants to do some dream theatre kinda stuff Doesnt their bass player have a 6 string bass? I want to do some Kings X stuff. Hes got an 8 string bass-lol. Hey we all get to pick one cover to do-lol
Im really a nice guy. If all else fails, I have my home recording studio to hide in.

[badassmak]

...then how does he understand to put his own clothes on?...or feed himself?...or not to pee his pants?

Hooga!Gronk!


It sounds like he's purposefully being a pain in the ass. People who do not work well with others should not be in a band.

[Lt. Bob]

The only additional comment I'd like to add is that a 5-string is no problem at all....at all..... AT ALL!!!
Granted.....for a few times it can get confusing but any musician with a little ability should quickly get used to it. I just got my first one and I don't see how anyone could be a bass player and not use one.
I usually suggest that people learning to use a 5-string, initially pretend the B string isn't there and just use it for a thumb rest for a time ot two. That helps to get comfortable with it and to see the fretboard correctly...

[dafduc]

Originally posted by crosstudio
i was that dick too.

Hey, me too. Those guys I started out with STILL hate me, 30 years later.

Why do I have to learn everything the hard way???

Daf

[Cygnus X-1]

Originally posted by Myx62
I want to do some Kings X stuff. Hes got an 8 string bass-lol. Hey we all get to pick one cover to do-

he also uses a 12 string bass.. (Hamer)


What King's X song are you doing? We used to play 'the world around me.'

I doubt a bass player could play that song if he wasn't in a dropped tuning.. It becomes real clear why you cant get away without drop tuning on a song like that.. Even with a 5 string..


We also did 'complain.'

[Myx62]

Originally posted by Cygnus X-1
he also uses a 12 string bass.. (Hamer)


What King's X song are you doing? We used to play 'the world around me.'

I doubt a bass player could play that song if he wasn't in a dropped tuning.. It becomes real clear why you cant get away without drop tuning on a song like that.. Even with a 5 string..


We also did 'complain.'

I would like to do Dogman. Ive played Black flag and Pleiades in other bands. Ive always been a KX freak.... It was listening to them that I learned the drop D tuning. Then Soundgarden started doing it..... Now many do it or drop even lower.

I agree Sam that it is very difficult to play that stuff without the drop tuning. I've tried it. I once tried to drop the B to D on a bass players 5 string and that didnt work so well.
I also have a floyd rose on my Ibanez RG and its a nightmare to go between tunings with a floating bridge. My yamaha pacifica needs some fret work and thats my standard tuned gtr.
Im starting to wonder if playing in a band again is worth it.....

[clifchamb]

My 2 cents as a bassist:

if he doesn't get the drop d thing, he'll NEVER be able to handle a 5 string and I wouldn't waste much time trying to teach him drop D either since learing a new tuning takes a lot of skill and dedication, two things this guy doesn't seem to have.

As far as his contributions as a writer, sometimes it is best for a group to write songs live together rather than bringing in their crappy 4 track recording with the intentions of forcing everyone else to make them into a song. Sometimes it just ain't gonna happen.

If you guys do not write good songs together, then maybe it is time to move on and take a few with you.

WHatever you do, do not give up on playing in a band together, if you find the right people it could be a great experience.

Life is very short, so don't waste any more time jamming with people who suck. You will just end up frustrated.

Better off to be one your own then to spend your time trying to get other people up to your level.

Anyhow hope that helps.

clif

PS. Is it me or do many players I see in bars with 5 string basses SELDOM use the low b string? WHen I play mine I am on it every chance I can get.

Oh and Cool drummer if he like Dream Theater, they are one of my favs too.

[Myx62]

I for the most part agree with you Clif. I will prob take the drummer with me and at the very least have him record some studio drumming for me.
Myx

[crosstudio]

1) was the band happy before you got there? are they happy now?

2) did the guy you replace write the songs too or was the bass player the primary writer before you got there? ego issues!

3) if you take the drummer, the guitar player will hate you forever and you will forever be known as a 'poison'... not the big hair band of the 80's.

ps. i personally fear guitar players who play bass (although i became one) because they secretly envy you.

[MrStitch]

Just a note on dropping....

I only have a six string guitar, and my bass player happens to have a five string.

So I just told him to tune the fith string to d, that way only one of us has to re-tune in a show.... usually he babbles on the mic while i'm doing it.

Has he ever played a five string bass? Some people say they get all messed up going from four to five... bass player in our band did a really good job, and in fact, plays on the extra fat string seldomly.

So if he can't understand drop D, and can't play a five string... what good is he anyway?

[IamBurnout]

Maybe I'm thick, too.

But, I must say, just because the guy gets a head-trip over alternate tunings, doesn't make him inferior.

I've been playing guitar (in standard tuning) for 16 years. When something lower is needed, I'll use a down (not drop)-tuned guitar.

Drop-tuning screws up scales and chord shapes, and I couldn't be bothered to learn how to adjust. I just keep a guitar tuned to D, and one tuned to B nearby. (Although I alternate between G and F# on the "G" string, depending on whether it's emulating a seven string,or not.)

I guess what I'm saying is...
Why is the guy a jerk,for not tuning his instrument the way you want him to?

Kind of sounds like guitar players can be pretty thick, too, huh?

As long as he's in key, and on time, he's doing his job.

[Monsterpop]

The Life and Art of Bass Playing
by Tony Levin

In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it
could have been a Jazz - nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old ... definitely
pre-C.B.S.

And God looked down upon it and saw that it was good. He saw that it was very
good in fact, and couldn't be improved on at all (though men would later try.)
And so He let it be and He created a man to play the bass.

And lo the man looked upon the bass, which was a beautiful 'sunburst' red, and
he loved it. He played upon the open E string and the note rang through the
earth and reverberated throughout the firmaments (thus reverb came to be.) And
it was good. And God heard that it was good and He smiled at His handiwork.

Then in the course of time, the man came to slap upon the bass. And lo it was
funky.

And God heard this funkiness and He said, "Go man, go." And it was good.

And more time passed, and, having little else to do, the man came to practice
upon the bass. And lo, the man came to have upon him a great set of chops. And
he did play faster and faster until the notes rippled like a breeze through the
heavens.

And God heard this sound which sounded something like the wind, which He had
created earlier. It also sounded something like the movement of furniture, which
He hadn't even created yet, and He was not so pleased. And He spoke to the man,
saying "Don't do that!"

Now the man heard the voice of God, but he was so excited about his new ability
that he slapped upon the bass a blizzard of funky notes. And the heavens shook
with the sound, and the Angels ran about in confusion. (Some of the Angels
started to dance, but that's another story.)

And God heard this - how could He miss it - and lo He became Bugged. And He
spoke to the man, and He said, "Listen man, if I wanted Jimi Hendrix I would
have created the guitar. Stick to the bass parts."

And the man heard the voice of God, and he knew not to mess with it. But now he
had upon him a passion for playing fast and high. The man took the frets off of
the bass which God had created. And the man did slide his fingers upon the
fretless fingerboard and play melodies high upon the neck. And, in his
excitement, the man did forget the commandment of the Lord, and he played a
frenzy of high melodies and blindingly fast licks. And the heavens rocked with
the assault and the earth shook, rattled and rolled.

Now God's wrath was great. And His voice was thunder as He spoke to the man.

And He said, "O.K. for you, pal. You have not heeded My word. Lo, I shall create
a soprano saxophone and it shall play higher than you can even think of."

"And from out of the chaos I shall bring forth the drums. And they shall play so
many notes thine head shall ache, and I shall make you to always stand next to
the drummer."

"You think you're loud? I shall create a stack of Marshall guitar amps to make
thine ears bleed. And I shall send down upon the earth other instruments, and
lo, they shall all be able to play higher and faster than the bass."

"And for all the days of man, your curse shall be this; that all the other
musicians shall look to you, the bass player, for the low notes. And if you play
too high or fast all the other musicians shall say "Wow" but really they shall
hate it. And they shall tell you you're ready for your solo career, and find
other bass players for their bands. And for all your days if you want to play
your fancy licks you shall have to sneak them in like a thief in the night."

"And if you finally do get to play a solo, everyone shall leave the bandstand
and go to the bar for a drink."

And it was so.
*****************************************************

[Roktuk]

Originally posted by IamBurnout
Maybe I'm thick, too.

But, I must say, just because the guy gets a head-trip over alternate tunings, doesn't make him inferior.

I've been playing guitar (in standard tuning) for 16 years. When something lower is needed, I'll use a down (not drop)-tuned guitar.

Drop-tuning screws up scales and chord shapes, and I couldn't be bothered to learn how to adjust. I just keep a guitar tuned to D, and one tuned to B nearby. (Although I alternate between G and F# on the "G" string, depending on whether it's emulating a seven string,or not.)

I guess what I'm saying is...
Why is the guy a jerk,for not tuning his instrument the way you want him to?

Kind of sounds like guitar players can be pretty thick, too, huh?

As long as he's in key, and on time, he's doing his job.

Agreed.
What a stupid thing to bitch about.

[clifchamb]

I'm sorry but a bass player who cannot grasp playing in drop d is not gonna last in a band full of members who are into King's X and Dream Theater.

As Myx62 stated earlier, it looks like the bass player has othe issues besides alternate tuning challenges.

How can a bass player be doing his job if the song calls for drop D tuning and they can't do it?


clif