Help! Low Frequency issues in mix down

[mtardif]

This may be better posted somewhere else, but hopefully someone can help. I'm running Sonar 2.2 XL on a pc with plenty of hardware and a M-Audio Duo sound card for instrument/vocal inputs. My inputs run through a couple of Behringer mixers before heading to the sound card.

Here's my issue, when I listen to any of the mixeddown songs on a stereo system with a low freq amp (ie my car, or my headphones with the amp), it seriously starts to hurt my ears after a while. One example only has 3 tracks - bass, acoustic guitar, and vocal. It's tough to explain exactly what I mean by 'hurts my ears'. It's not because the bass is too loud, it just seems to me that there is a bunch of low frequency output coming through on the acoustic and vocal tracks. Both of those tracks were recorded with the input mixing levels set to 0db on all frequencies. (I wish I had a sample I could give you all, but I don't).

Does anyone know of the easiest way to adjust each track in Sonar to the right frequency output for the instrument (I'm guessing just using the EQ)?? And also, is there some sort of chart or something that specifically has instruments and their general output levels (ex: Acoustic Guitar - -5db at 200khz, etc.). I know that every instrument won't be the same, but I just need a starting point. Thanks!

[dachay2tnr]

There are charts available that show the overall frequency ranges of various insturments, however, there is no magic eq setting for each. It really depends on too many variables - what else is in the mix, style of music, etc.

For your particular situation I would try to put a high pass filter on the VMain set for about 40 or 50 Hz. See if that helps.

If not, you might want to try and put the mix on a frequency analyzer and see what's happening.

It also sounds like you might need a pair of decent monitors (although admittedly my 20/20 BAS speakers don't help much in the low bass area).

[maestro_dmc]

When you mix down, turn it up! You will not hear enough of the low content unless you mix fairly loud.

[mtardif]

Thanks for the help guys! This is definitley a Newbie question, but how do you add a high pass filter to the the tracks using Sonar?? Is there a filter audio effect? (sorry, I'm at work and not in front of my studio pc)

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by mtardif
Thanks for the help guys! This is definitley a Newbie question, but how do you add a high pass filter to the the tracks using Sonar?? Is there a filter audio effect? (sorry, I'm at work and not in front of my studio pc)

This means using eq to remove everything below a certain frequency. If you don't have anything better, you can use the FxEq plugin that comes with Sonar.

Insert the plugin and choose one of the presets that says "with shelf." Set the center frequency on the low shelf for about 50 Hz and drop the fader all the way down (see photo). You can then play with the center frequency a bit (35 - 70 Hz range) to see what sounds best.

Don't know if this will fix the problem, but it doesn't cost you anything to try.

[moskus]

And if you have Sonar XL, then it's much easier to use the TimeworksEQ...

Dachay, have you taken after James or something?

[crosstudio]

actually the EQ that comes with cakewalk (the DSP-fx EQ) is not bad at all. i do think the ultrafunk (now defunct) and waves EQs are better, but they don't come with sonar.

why, oh, why are you using a COUPLE of behringer mixers... you don't mean that the mixer gains are chained together do you? what are doing that for?

you definitely need to use a low-cut filter on you acoustic guitar if you also have a bass guitar in the track.

i almost always do a high-pass on vocals around 100hz or higher depending on the gender and octave range of the singer.

[mtardif]

I say a 'couple of mixers' but only one is used to control the inputs into the pc. The other is used to mix outputs coming back from the playback, other instruments we mess around with, headphone controls, monitor outputs, etc..

Last night, I re-recorded a bunch of stuff with the acoustic and cut everything below 80hz. Left the bass track alone and it's like a night and day difference. It sounds 1000 times better and now you can actually distinguish the two tracks in the mix!! My next project will be the vocals.

Thanks for your help guys. It'll still take me thousands of more hours of learning to get it all right, but hey, that's what it's all about. At least I know where to go for questions.

And with that, I've got a couple more. Got any suggestions on where to set the low pass filter on the bass? Again, a starting point for me to mess around with would be great. Also, is there a EQ in Sonar that actually shows you the decibal output at the different frequencies as the track plays? I'm only seeing EQ's that allow you change the mix, but don't actually show you where the current levels are.

Thanks again for all the help, I know it can be a pain in the ass to keep answering all these questions, but I really do appreciate it.

[moskus]

Originally posted by mtardif
Got any suggestions on where to set the low pass filter on the bass? Again, a starting point for me to mess around with would be great. Also, is there a EQ in Sonar that actually shows you the decibal output at the different frequencies as the track plays? I'm only seeing EQ's that allow you change the mix, but don't actually show you where the current levels are.

1. Where it fits. I don't even think I would use a low-pass filter on my bass...
2. Yes, if you have Sonar XL, you can use the TimeworksEQ. It has a built in frequensy-analyzer.



But be aware:
Don't mix with numbers and figures. You need to listen!!!!!


It really sounds like you need some better speakers/monitors.

[Teacher]

are u part of 12 tones european marketing division?

Originally posted by moskus
1. Where it fits. I don't even think I would use a low-pass filter on my bass...
2. Yes, if you have Sonar XL, you can use the TimeworksEQ. It has a built in frequensy-analyzer.



But be aware:
Don't mix with numbers and figures. You need to listen!!!!!


It really sounds like you need some better speakers/monitors.

[James Argo]

mtardif
My inputs run through a couple of Behringer mixers before heading to the sound card.

Originally posted by dachay2tnr
There are charts available that show the overall frequency ranges of various insturments

This one is the best... watch the frequency range chart on lower section

http://music.theory.home.att.net/insrange.htm

Originally posted by moskus
Dachay, have you taken after James or something ?

He learns it perfect, moskus

Originally posted by Teacher
are u part of 12 tones european marketing division?

It's now officialy called just Cakewalk. Not 12 tones (TTS) Anymore... And he couldn't be Cakewalk's european marketing division guy... (salesman ). He hates Homo



Jaymz

[moskus]

Originally posted by Teacher
are u part of 12 tones european marketing division?

I'm just a trainee...



Naw, not really.

[mtardif]

Hey all, just wanted to let you know the new mixes are coming out great (or at least great compared to what they used to be). I'll post some up once they're decent enough for me to take some criticism!! Thanks again for the help. This forum rocks!

[moskus]

Originally posted by mtardif
Thanks again for the help. This forum rocks!

No problem!


And we know we rock... that's why we're here... uhm... wait...