Anyone know anything about MIDI electronics?

[jake-owa]

I'm thinking of making a kick pedal with its own note programmable MIDI out. It would need to be velocity sensitive and use the standard MIDI protocol.

Anyone?

[James Argo]

Whew, that's a homerecer's spirit, jake

I dunno, IMHO, I'd rather go with pad triggering device a bit more expensive, but save me alot of time for actually makin' music instead of headache thinkin' the circuits


Jaymz

[Roel]

I know it. Used to know half the protocol by heart.

What you need to do is figure out a way to convert the physical action to some sort of electronical signal. This means, some sort of circuit that detects whenever the kick is hit, and some sort of signal that is in relation to the velocity of the hit.

From there on the circuitry is easy and straight forward. The midi protocol is an easy historical protocol that can be handled by the most simple microcontrollers. You program it to receive the hit-signal, measure the velocity, and then send out the note on message. And the note off message right afterwards probably. (I don't really know the details about how note off is handled by these kind of controllers.) It's really easy to program that.

The hard part is the velocity really. I haven't got a clue how that is done. I know you can easily make this kindof pad by putting one of those piezo-speakers (that also function as a mic) under some rubber. Don't know how they handle velocity, could be that you can just measure the output of the mic. (Easily done by the builton ADC's of a microcontroller.)

The hardest part in making these pads, as some drummer once told me, is finding the right amount of rubber etc, to get a good physical response of the 'drum'....

[duck]

I can only give you some Info Links if that helps Jake.
bottom of page.
http://www.epanorama.net/links/music.html#midi
http://www.troikaranch.org/geekpage.html

[jake-owa]

Thanks guys, I'll keep ya posted on the progress...if there is any.

[jake-owa]

I think I'm just going to try to cannibalize a keboard velocity pad and mechanism and try to adapt it to a pedal.

[Roel]

That would be rather hard. A kick pedal can be quite aggressive when compared to a key.

Also, the way velocity of a keyboard works is done with 2 sensors. One triggers just before the other one when you push down the key. The difference in time between the 2 sensors being triggered is in direct relation to the speed you push the key, and thus the velocity.

With a kick, normally you really have just pedal hitting a fake drum which contains the sensor. Here it is really measured how hard it is hit.

If you look around, you'll find a link to making drumpads somewhere. Those piece-speakers they use can be bought deadcheap.

Btw, have you ever programmed a microcontroller or designed any electronic circuitry? If not, you are in for one hell of a fun ride.

[Roel]

HERE is some more info for ya...

THIS one gives you a good idea of how the triggers are constructed...

Whenever you wanna make something yourself, the keyword on the internet is DIY...

[Roel]

Here's about everything you need to know for the electronics in it... http://tomscarff.tripod.com/8way_drm2/8way_drm2_1.htm

The only thing you gotta figure out yourself is programming the microcontroller!

[James Argo]

This SMART guy deffinitelly knows what he's talking about Nice links, Roel. Learning something new everyday


Jaymz

[jake-owa]

Thanks Roel, no I haven't done to much elecrtical engineering but I was hoping I could adapt the key thing and MIDI out from a keyboard. I guess the leverage of how the key is struck could be adjusted but it might be more trouble than it's worth. No, I 've never done any PIC programming or assembly language but I was hoping to find an easier way, maybe partially preassembled parts.

Thanks for the links.
I wish I could just find someting to buy but there IS nothing like this. Plenty of pedal triggers but none with a MIDI out.

[Roel]

Well, that last link I gave you leads to a place that sells kit for that component. But if you look around, you might be able to find one of them older digital drum modules that do this conversion, but also have samples in it... Don't know the prices, but it's been there for way long time, and there's alot of new stuff around so the prices are probaby reasonable.

[zekthedeadcow]

those links rocked... here's one I found for a midi console controller that I want to try.
http://www.ucapps.de/

[Leeking]

Originally posted by zekthedeadcow
those links rocked... here's one I found for a midi console controller that I want to try.
http://www.ucapps.de/

yeah, I was seriously considering that, but ended up getting one in ebay.

[Leeking]

Originally posted by jake-owa
I'm thinking of making a kick pedal with its own note programmable MIDI out. It would need to be velocity sensitive and use the standard MIDI protocol.

Anyone?

Jake, if you already have a drum module, this would be pretty simple. If not, get one!!!

[Fela]

I made a drum set out of piezo buzzers, tractor innertubes, particle board, PVC pipe and an alesis d4 brain. D4s go for about 100 bucks or less now. Radio shack makes some piezo buzzers that are just a diaphragm with a thin piece of plastic around the edge, they are bigger and work better. Just plug those into a drum brain with a 2 conductor cable and let it rip. Generally, drum triggers don't send a note off message.

If I still have that drum set it may be fer sale.

[jake-owa]

Which drumset, how much and would you consider a trade?

[TexRoadkill]

I have to agree with Felo. I would think using a Piezo trigger and a real kick pedal would be the way to go. You still need an electronic head to accept the triggers but building that would be pretty intense IMO. The trick is converting the analog signal to midi and that requires some type of IC. I would look for a used D4.

[jake-owa]

I would but I can't stand Alesis drum sounds. I'm looking into a used Yamaha module right now for $150.

[TexRoadkill]

You don't have to use the Alesis sounds. You can midi out from there to any module. If that Yammi has trigger inputs then you're all set.

[jake-owa]

Yeah Tex, it has trigger inputs and 8 audio outs so I think I'm in business.

[TexRoadkill]

Whats the model of the Yamaha? I'd like to get a trigger head one of these days and the Alesis is the only cheapie that I'm aware of.

PS- I finally pulled the cables from my rig and got them packed up. Hopefully ship in a day or so.