copyrighting

[kid_nova]

I'm trying to find out information about copyrights. I've read things from copyright.gov, ASCAP, and some other sources, but i'm still feeling like I don't know much at all. I'm looking to get a copyright on a song or two that I've been playing around at several performances. I'm unpublished as of yet, but people have mentioned to me that I should get my music copywritten. Here are my questions:

1) Is it true that a song is copywritten as soon as I write it out and put a (C) on it?

2) What kind of protection does registering my lyrics/music with the Library of Congress give me?

3) What benefits would joining ASCAP or another society have for someone like me who only has one or two songs that I am trying to protect? Is it worth it?

thank you

[eyeslikefire]

1) Is it true that a song is copywritten as soon as I write it out and put a (C) on it?
~No, you must fill out a SR form and pay the Library of congress.~

2) What kind of protection does registering my lyrics/music with the Library of Congress give me?
~The lawsuit kind. If someone steals your stuff you can sue em.~

3) What benefits would joining ASCAP or another society have for someone like me who only has one or two songs that I am trying to protect? Is it worth it?
~Just copywrite your material, that should suffice.~

[KevinTran]

Has anyone heard of this? I suppose I can search the net for the info but I'm too lazy right now.

A friend of mine said there's such a thing as a Poor Man's Copyright.

The way you do it is put what you want to copyright in a mail package and mail it to yourself. And DON'T OPEN IT!!

This essentially proves that you were the creator of that particular item. I haven't heard anyone argue this in court though.

kt

[charlie b]

I think it varies from country to country, but I have been told the same thing Kevin. In either case, I think mailing it to yourself is a good idea cause in the off-chance someone rips off your ideas, you do have some proof for your lawyer.

I know Australia has an organisation which provides funding etc for artists of all different forms, you pay a joining fee and that provides you also with access to lawyers to advise you on copyright and that kind of stuff. I'm guessing most other countries would have an equivalent...???

[Gidge]

on #1, yes as soon as you write it out, it is copyrighted.......no copyright symbol is needed......it is yours plain and simple.....

registering is merely proof if anyone tries to infringe....registering also gives you the right to collect damages if you do win a suit.....

as eyes said, at this point you dont need ASCAP.....

[Gidge]

also, the poor mans copyright will almost never stand up in a court of law......

[KevinTran]

Originally posted by Gidge
also, the poor mans copyright will almost never stand up in a court of law......

Gidge,
I don't understand that. You say "almost never". In court, isn't the "precedent" of it working in court in at least one case give it a good chance of working again?

kt

[KevinTran]

Here's what I got about the poor man's copyright. It doesn't work.

From: http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/copyright.html

Myth #6: "poor man's copyright" is an acceptable substitute for registration. Writers in the USA are often told that putting a copy of their work in an envelope, mailing it to themselves, and retaining the envelope unopened (a.k.a. poor man's copyright) is a reasonable alternative to official copyright registration, since it proves both ownership and the date of creation.

However, while this might possibly be useful in a court case (and remember, you can accomplish the same thing by retaining draft copies and computer records), it does not provide legal protection in countries where registration is a prerequisite for filing an infringement suit. The same goes for timestamping services and script registration with theWGA. Additionally, poor man's copyright may not stand up in court--you could have mailed that envelope to yourself empty, and filled and sealed it later.

kt
so nevermind

[kid_nova]

I didn't suppose joining ASCAP or anything would be useful for me, but I just wondered.

thanks for the tips and info.

[PhilihP]

As far as copyrights go, and if memory serves me right:

I believe the copyright goes into effect at the moment of creation. It doesn’t matter whether the © is on it or not.

Form SR may be the correct form to use, but I always used Form PA for my song copyrights. I do know the two forms are closely related.

As to the “poor man’s copyright”. You send your work to yourself by CERTIFIED MAIL WITH A RETURN RECEIPT and leave it sealed in the envelope.

I used to do this all the time, but I don’t bother with it anymore. If you play your music for others to hear, then do the “poor man’s copyright” if you think someone might copy your stuff and beat you to the copyright office with it. If two people try to copyright the same song, the one who gets to the copyright office first is the winner. BUT! Don’t expect it to hold up in a court of law, because I’m not sure it will. That’s why you should ALSO REGISTER YOUR WORK WITH THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE! THE POOR MAN’S COPYRIGHT ALONE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! It’s ok to do both, but it’s not ok to not register your work with the © office. And besides, it only costs like $30.

If you decide to send in your work, I suggest you send in both a recording and something on paper even if it’s only the lyrics and chords. The notes would be fine too. You can write it by hand if you want, and they’ll accept it. This is just in case something happens to your recording over time. Use © for the stuff on paper (sheet music or whatever). And (P) on your recordings.

There’s no such thing as “copyright protection”. But it will establish you as the creator of the work and it takes effect the day it reaches the © office, not the day the copyright is issued months later. And it will hold up in a court of law.

And one last thing. You may want to send it by UPS or any service where you can track it. This way you’ll know it got there in a short space of time, or you’ll spend months waiting to find out. Send it, and once it gets there, it’s yours! Don’t send it to them by certified mail with a return receipt, because IF you ever get the receipt back, it will take weeks or months. That’s IF you get it back. I’m still waiting for the last one I sent in around 1 ½ years ago. But that’s ok because I already got the copyright.

I hope that helps,
Phil

[Innovations]

The main advantage of ASCAP is that they act as a clearinghouse for copyright reporting and royalty payments.

So if you are just interested in protecting yourself from others pretending your work is theirs then ASCAP does not get you anything. If you want to get into the system for being paid when others play or record your songs then you need to belong to ASCAP.

You have copyright protection from the minute you publish something. Putting the copyright symbol and date is just a way of notifying others of who has the rights to this document and as of when (so they know who to send the payment too )

If you ever need to go to court on a copyright undoubtedly the other side will say that the work is original. You will need to prove that you did write it and when. Mailing a certified copy to yourself can work but the problem is one of proving that you did not tamper with this evidence. Thus mailing the document to a neutral third party to hold will greatly improve its evidence value. In fact all that the government is doing when you register a copyright is being that neutral third party.