From a Newbie to other Newbies...

[KevinTran]

I'm sure some veterans around here will disagree with me on this, but I'd thought I'd share a a lesson that I've learned so far (in the last month and a half). So this is from a newbie point of view.

I just started learning about home recording and knew nothing about condenser mics, preamps, compressors, dedicated sound cards, balanced cables, XLR, TS vs TRS, aux sends, etc. Some it is still fuzzy since I've only read about most of it and not had hands-on experience.

Anyway, what is my main goal?
** Learn as much as possible about the many different aspects home recording. I don't have plans on being a major player and opening a studio business of my own. Just having fun.

I'm sure this applies to everyone. I'm on a limited budget.

**When facing a decision between ADDING functionality to a home studio and IMPROVING functionality, go with ADDING functions.

Why?
Being a newbie, you don't know yet what sounds bad and more importantly, WHY it sounds bad. So the level of appreciation for the improvement can't exist. (there is one exception and that is the condenser mic over a dynamic).

If you have a Soundblaster Live!, you might be considering upgrading to an Audiophile 2496 or other Delta card or even Lynx card, etc. Unless you need the extra track recording capability, you can probably get by with the Live! and not lose too much.

If you have a preamp in your mixer, you might be wanting to upgrade to a dedicated preamp like an RNC or DMP3. Skip it, crank up the gain on your mixer and make due.

Save the money on "upgrades" and add things that you don't have yet, so you can be exposed to another aspect of recording.

I recently bought the AP 2496 card, then returned it. Then got the DMP3, then returned it. In both cases, i could notice a difference and slight improvements, but it simply wasn't enough for me to appreciate it. I now added a Yamaha MIDI keyboard which is new gear. What this purchase has done is opened the world of MIDI up to me from hardware AND software aspects. Having the keyboard will teach more about recording than the other two purchases.

anyone wanna comment?

kt

[TexRoadkill]

I think it depends on your goals. I would rather have an extremely limited but high quality setup then a bunch of bells and whistles with crappy sound.

If you just like to noodle around and twist knobs then a lot of toys are great. If you are truly interested in kick ass sound then there is no replacement for the right gear.

[c7sus]

Well, I guess you learned that "upgrading" to mediocre gear isn't an upgrade at all.

It's just more pissing in the wind................

I disagree ENTIRELY about trying to squeek by with a SoundBlaster ANYTHING! The convertors in those are trash.

Even a Darla20 is a leap from SB.

Like Ed says........ "Buy cheap, buy twice".

Don't think you're going to get away without room treatments, either. Having a "Golden" mic>pre chain doesn't help you at all in a room that sounds like ass.

So figure on spending some bread to tame the flutter echo and standing waves in your room. They're getting in your mic and your mixes!!!

[KevinTran]

Yes, yes, I agree with some of what you guys are saying. Especially the upgrading to mediocre gear bit.

I guess it boils down to this: Is it better for a newbie to learn the technique(s) of recording before improving quality of sound?

Given the goal of wanting to learn the whole spectrum. Not the newbie who just wants to record guitar tracks and vocals into a hard drive.

I disagree with you, c7 about the sound blaster. Although at the low end of the spectrum, it's sufficient to record at 48KHz, 16bits if you're just starting out.

kt

[dtb]

You also should think about what you REALLY want to do with all that shit. The most fun I have is recording when the fellows come over for eats, drinks, and music. I normally let the recorder run unless it gets TOO long between tunz, but I leave in stories, jokes, chit-chat, that's the greatest stuff in the world to listen back to. And the peoples like to listen too. I could do that with a little portable recorder and one mic. And I did that too, for a long time, until I came here. he he he he he So now I have a very modest 7500.00 or so in instruments and recording gear. And I still have more fun doing what I just described. Every week. And sometimes two times a week. And what I have now is the same music, jokes, stories, chit-chat, and what-not, that's much better to listen to, because of the quality difference. he he he he he he

So my 2 cents, get the best quality toys, what you can afford without going broke, and learn to use it for what makes you feel good.

[KevinTran]

yes there will always be unique situations that require different strategies. that's why i stated my goal was to learn about the different aspects of recording. and i think many newbies have that same goal.

Point #1:
Give a newbie a high-end product. Starting out with that, the newbie would have no prior reference to tell if the output of that gear is excellent or not. Yet he's out the high $$$ to get the gear.

Point #2:
It would be better to add something that will create a wider universe of knowledge. After the newb has the experience with his equipment and learned the techniques, he will be able to tell if upgraded equipment is much better or not.

Man, am I explaining myself clearly. I know someone must understand what I'm saying.

Also on the Soundblaster Live!: Here's just one guys review of the card. But he's tested out many cards and lists all technical data too. It's one opinion but he gives the SB Live! a Very Good overall as a recording device.

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare

kt

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by KevinTran
Man, am I explaining myself clearly. I know someone must understand what I'm saying.

Also on the Soundblaster Live!: Here's just one guys review of the card. But he's tested out many cards and lists all technical data too. It's one opinion but he gives the SB Live! a Very Good overall as a recording device.

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare

kt

We understand we just don't agree.

The soundblaster is a good recording card if you are not concerned with driver compatability with pro apps or sound quality.

All the fancy techniques are supposed to make your music sound better, right? Well if you have good clean equipment and proper recording/mixing environment then you don't need to do a bunch of fancy mix tricks to make it sound great. That's the whole point that the more experienced engineers are always trying to make. The better the gear the easier your job (for the most part).

Your example about the keyboard is apples and oranges. If somebody wants to make good acoustic recordings then their money would be better off in a better pre and better sound card.

It just depends on their goals.

[duck]

Being a newbie, you don't know yet what sounds bad and more importantly, WHY it sounds bad

In my opinion thats the most overlooked aspect of Homerecordists. Training your ears.
But if your just doing it for fun I guess it doesnt matter.

[KevinTran]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
That's the whole point that the more experienced engineers are always trying to make. The better the gear the easier your job (for the most part).

The difference is the "trained ear." For instance, there's that guy on this BBS with The Listening Session (or something like that).
On the site, he compares a bunch of microphones plugged into several preamps. Now, when I listen to the different recordings, I usually can't hear a damn difference. And that could be a SP B1 against a high end Neumann or whatever. I'm sure you can tell a difference, but not me.

You'd have to know and fully understand the advantage of better gear in order to "make your job easier."

But i know what you're saying, Tex. It all depends. That's always the answer to so many of the newbie questions though. I was thinking in general, but maybe that doesn't work either.

kt

[Rimshot]

I am also a newbie to recording and sound. Not to music, hell I've been around since the Dead Sea was only sick, but I always depended on the sound people, never really learned it myself. i'd record ideas into a tape deck with a radio shack mic or two. Then I got interested in the strange language that the sound engineers have, and I thought that it was about time I learned some of this stuff. Keep it Simple Stupid (KISS) should be the motto for all of us newbees. All of the bells and whistles are just that, annoyances (unless of course you're recording bells and whistles). It should be about music. In the end, it should be all about music. Capturing a good performance well. There are all sorts of tools that electronic folks use to make bad performances sound good...or better, i.e. auto tune. But for me it's about capturing a performance true. You won't need a lot to do that, but what you get had better work well. You don't have to break the bank, but you will have to bend it a bit. Learn to work with something simpler that's well made and can give you acceptable quality. KISS I bought a lot of junk that don't work well and I need more stuff that does work well. I'm trying to learn to play for the mics instead of playing live, that's difficult. A lot of time a really good performance will forgive substandard recording. Don't forget about the music.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by KevinTran
The difference is the "trained ear." For instance, there's that guy on this BBS with The Listening Session (or something like that).
On the site, he compares a bunch of microphones plugged into several preamps. Now, when I listen to the different recordings, I usually can't hear a damn difference. And that could be a SP B1 against a high end Neumann or whatever. I'm sure you can tell a difference, but not me.

There is no magic difference to hear. You never really know if a sound is going to work until you hear it in a mix. On that CD you were hearing all competent recordings on good equipment. It is all just different shades of good.

If that CD had a few tracks done in a shitty room with a nady mic through a behringer into a soundblaster I guarantee ANYONE would hear a difference betweeen that and the Listening Session tracks.

That's the point. If you just follow the basic principles and use good gear you will get a good sound. Everything from that point on is icing on the cake and just a matter of how good or specific you want to be.

[PoetSleep00]

If you're interested in electronic producing /recording then immerse yourself in it. Read every magazine(they're cheap) you can get your hands on. Not literally every one, but you know EQ, Electronic Musician, etc.. subscribe to Sam Ash and Musicians friend, plus other local merchandise sellers, if you have a question about a particular piece of equipment goto an online search engine and type in the name of the piece of equipment. a couple of sites'll come up... look for ones with user ratings... check out pieces of equipment such as those that have 'followings', and why they re release certain versions of equipment. , know what'll do what. what'll give you what sound. if you've listened to hip hop for example, and you knew that the sequencer of choice seems to be the mpc3000, or the MPC2000 it would make you want to figure out why they take that route, because if you like a certain style of music, you should know who produces your favorite act then figure out what gave them have the sounds that they have. what combinations gave them what results.

each artist's setup is a different configuration of they'vewe've unravelled audio recording and how we feel comfortable with signal flow. Signal flow has always been a big deal to me, as far as drawing maps of your setups, to help you with different configurations.

electronically generated music is the future. understanding your equipment is essential to speak in the quality which you embrace whether that be analog or digital or "tomorrow". Some like their music warmed, some like it grittier, some cleaner, some people's stuff sounds straight out the Sp1200. Understand when you explore recording, you explore your medium.


lostpoets.com winter 2004

[terocious]

I am a carpenter so when I began to buy recording equipment I applied some lessons I learned when buying power tools. I started out buying the cheap tools which could do the job but with a very high frustration factor and a good deal of variation in accuracy. After I had bought the same tool several times I began to research the more expensive options. I took the plunge and made the investment and two things happened: My life got a whole lot easier and my skill level increased by degrees simply from not having to struggle so hard. Kevin I understand your point about being new and not being able to tell the difference but we all hear professionally recorded music everyday so we can tell where our own recordings fall short on the basis of this comparison. If I produce a crappy recording with decent equipment at least I know who to blame and that I have not reached the end of my gears potentitial but simply my own current skill level. Just one newbies opinion.

[Garry Sharp]

I've been noodling around with this for three years or so and am just beginning to really understand, for myself, why expensive kit costs more than cheap kit. If I had that time again I'd buy a small number of high quality, basic elements and not all the cheap gimmicky trash I've now outgrown. Hope this triggers a knowing grin or two

[Terry Smith]

I disagree with the idea that “newbies” can’t tell the difference between good and bad music (sound). I’ve been listening and playing music all my life and I think that qualifies almost anyone (the except the tone deaf), to make this distinction. The key is just listening, if it sounds good, it probably is. Can it be improved? Maybe yes, or maybe no.

I’m new to this, about four weeks, and I have read my “basics” book(s) three times through and just now I’m beginning to understand some of the concepts. Understanding the “glossary” is a big help here. If you can’t speak the language. . etc.

Like the carpenter above, buy the best you can afford, quality tools pay off in the long run. No matter how many tools in the toll box, if you can’t drive a nail without bending it, you aren’t going to build a very good house.

He also makes a valid point, if you have good tools but construct a poorly build house, you know exactly who to blame, (I hope you can follow the analogy).

Second, regardless of your endeavor, if you are going to spend a part of your God given life doing something, you should always strive to do the best you can. Mediocrity is the bane of existence; we should always strive for quality in our lives.

My philosophy is - keep it simple; things go a lot more smoothly when you do. I do this in my life, I do this in my writing (I write a monthly column for a trade magazine), I do it in my music arrangements, and I do it in my mixing. But that’s me; I’m recording mountain dulcimer and acoustic guitar arrangement, and the same with occasional vocals in a small contemporary Christian group.

I’m having just a whole lot of fun doing it too.

‘Nuff said. Back to work.

[Chris Tondreau]

Okay, in keeping with the carpenter analogy, consider this. A carpenter of excellent skill who uses beautiful wood and mediocre tools will always turn out a better product than I who knows nothing about carpentry, nor the tools, and use plywood - even if I have the best tools in the world at my disposal.

Mutt Lange or Bob Rock would make a WAY better recording of, say, AC/DC in MY studio than a rookie in a zillion dollar studio trying to record a band that can't even make it through a song without messing up or playing out of tune.

I think the most important things are a great performance and someone who knows how to capture it and put it together. This will result in a better recording than simply having good gear.

I have entry-level gear, and I am learning better all the time how to make decent recordings with it. Now that I have some knowledge, when I DO decide to upgrade my stuff, I'll know that it's not just a passing fancy, and I'll know how to use it all. I'll be able to make some damn good recordings.

Chris

[terocious]

Good points Chris. I am certainly not advocating remortgaging your house to buy equipment. Especially if you do not yet know that your interest is more than just a passing fancy. It seems to me in every field of interest there are varying degrees of equipment to choose from. The lowest level being essentially disposable made by companies who really have no interest in providing quality but are looking to take advantage of an incomers enthusiasm. My first jigsaw cost 45 dollars and lasted me all of six months. My second cost three times that much and I am still working with it ten years later. In hindsight the second was the better investment.

Perhaps this is a poor analogy though because of the different ratios of research and development in the fields of power tools and home recording equipment. Jigsaws have not changed all that much in the last ten years but the possibilites in home recording have seen nothing but change.

[KevinTran]

There are very complicated power tools out there. A person that has never handled the equipment would be overwhelmed by the complexities of the higher-end much more costly tools.

Let's say you never knew how to use a jigsaw before. You used it for 6 months, learning what could and more importantly couldn't be done with that $45 jigsaw. Then after 6 months, you've gotten that much experience with using it and when you went to replace it, you knew what functions worked for you, and what functions you didn't care about. With that knowledge, you were able to choose just the right 'professional' grade jigsaw. Maybe it's a simplistic example because a jigsaw is pretty straightforward. You can't discount all that you LEARNED with the cheap one that ENABLED you to know what to upgrade.

I'm sure spending 45 on a cheap jigsaw to first learn how to use, freed up some money to get an accompanying miter saw. Now you get to learn 2 pieces of equipment!

kt

[_ronin75_]

I dig what your saying Kev..

I am kinda stuck in the same situation

should I buy a masterkeyboard or go for something like an omni studio delta 66 combo ...(or even better something like a q10 )
but for me that could be considered as "pearls for pigs" at the moment

let me fuck around a bit with homerecording and getting to know all the necesary SW , while I keep on using my SB card as long as it suits me and no-one complaints about the audio quality ....

[Slackmaster2K]

As someone with several years now in the newbie business, I will offer up this one piece of advice:

The most important thing to buy first is your monitoring solution - that is, a mixer or preamp + (a poweramp + monitors or active monitors).

You can't really judge anything until you can hear it at least somewhat well.

Lots of people don't buy into this and they just think they can get away with their stereo or computer speakers for the time being. I'm telling you, anybody who's over that stage knows the importance of monitors.

It's going to cost you $500 for an entire package. Save up, it's worth it.

Slackmaster 2000

[KevinTran]

Ronin, yes that's what i'm saying.

Slack, "several years in the newbie business" hehe. Good monitors may have to be my next purchase. I do think the final chink in the chain is often overlooked. I'm listening through pc speakers, headphones, and big ass Yamaha dual 15" club speakers right now. probably missing all kinds of shit without decent monitors.

kt

[dafduc]

I'm gonna share a newbie mistake I made...

...I bought an obscure sequencer, 'cos the price was right. I realized my mistake soon enough, and replaced it with Cubase, but the work I did in that first sequencer (PowerTracks 6.0) is stuck in that format. I could extract the wavs, I suppose, but the midi work is trapped in lo-fi land.

If I'd had it to do again, I'd have started with Cubasis or one of the baby Cakes ( ) instead, so there's be an upgrade path. That's how my Acid work started out (Acid Music 1.0), and I've been able to move my files upward as I've upgraded.

Of course, not enough newbs come here before they buy (typical thread: Hi, I'm new here and I just bought a Sowsear Soft Sequencer!!! I'm so excited!!! What do I do now???). The right answer would be, "take it back, get something normal". But hopefully, a word to the wise...

Daf

[Hi_D_Ho_Man]

There are good points on both sides. Just as Slack said a solid monitoring system should be where we should all start, but you hardly ever see that happen. After that you work it out from going from need to want.

When i first got interested in digital recording I already had a so-so PC with a Soundblaster Live card and a cheap keyboard with midi capabilities. I had protools free and a cubasis demo that i dl'd from the web. I knew right away that the sound was not good( coming from my PC speakers). I went to GC the guy talked me into a delta66/omni (i consider myself lucky that its was actually a decent purchase. I was so anxious to buy that taken his advice on anything he suggest to me) Long story short, everything i had originally, I ended up replacing, and i dont recommend buying cheap. but you don't have to go top shelf either. The delta 66 is still part of my setup its reliable and good sounding and not incredibly expensive. I didn't know how to maximize the uses of the Omni I/O (still dont) but i use its basic functions everyday. and when i decide to take it to the next level I dont need to replace it. I'll just have to RTFM. Any piece of equipment you buy will have to be learned why waste hard earned cash on temporary gear. Unless of course recording is only for temporary fun

P.S. If you cant afford the cost all in one shot, try AMS's easy payment plans. Break the cost into 3 or 5 payments Its the only way I fly.

[WashburnGuy]

Probably get flamed here but, I'm gonna' take a chance and jump in............

Kevin, I understand what you're saying and, to a large degree, I'll have to agree with you on many points.

I'm a newbie on a limited budget myself. I've got what I'm sure many experienced folks would call "junk equipment" (Tascam Porta02 MKII, Nady mics, headphones and PC speakers for monitors, n-Track Studio) but, at this point in time I've got alot of basics to learn and all the extra bells and whistles would only confuse me. What I've got works for me at this time.

I've been at this less than a week but I can see already that I need to upgrade my monitor situation. So next, I'll study the equipment available and, when financially able, I'll upgrade accordingly. As I become more educated in this home recording business, I'll continue to upgrade equipment as needed.

As for the tool analogies, let me make this analogy.........

If you're a new driver and only need a car to go to the grocery store, does it make sense to buy a Mercedes or a BMW to accomplish that task or would a Hyundai suffice? As you become more proficient at driving, you might want to start to explore. IMO, at that point, that's where you might consider upgrading to the 'Benz or BMW. Otherwise, there's alot of money tied up for little benefit to be realized.

Next, I've got a very good friend who, when he takes an interest in something, buys only THE BEST, top-of-the-line of equipment available.

As a result, he's got tons of money tied up in high-end toys that he's really only capable of using the most basic features of. He can rattle of every pertinent spec and feature available but doesn't even begin to scratch the surface in terms of taking advantage of all the features available.

He got into SCUBA diving about ten years ago. Bought THE BEST regulator, THE BEST double tanks, THE BEST mask, THE BEST fins, etc.......topped off with some type of big-dollar divers watch that is rated for some unbelievable depth that would most likely crush you from the pressure if you ever went that deep but, he can honestly claim that he's got what, at that time, was the best gear available. Thousands of dollars worth of it.

He hasn't done any SCUBA diving in about 8 years. His equipment now sits in a closet in his house. The hoses are dry rotting and the equipment is no longer state-of-the-art so, he can't even come close to getting his money back if he tried to sell it.

My analogy..........I don't need a Makita screw gun to mount the license plates on my car. Just a regular old flat head screwdriver will do the job just fine!

[KevinTran]

Thanks for making my point so eloquently, Wash.

kt