What could possibly go wrong with this plan?

[CyanJaguar]

I decided that I finally have enough of what it takes to be in the industry and I am going to go for broke - next year when I graduate.

HEre is my plan. I think I have the three things one needs to succeed in music.

Marketing: I have a marketing degree, with a focus in selling.

Music : I know what listeners reward and can write them - WILDCARDS

Business: I'll have my MBA next year.



THE PLAN
What I want to do next year, as soon as I graduate, is take my savings (maybe $5k-6k ) and move to NYC for two months looking for a record deal or job with a big record label(BAD BOY, ARISTA)

The plan is to try to sell myself as
one: An artist who knows what the market wants, knows how to get it, and is not just looking for handouts.

IF that does not work,
two: A marketing person who knows how to find hit songs and has worked with enough artists to be able to get the talent together to make a hit offering.

I honestly want to walk into P.Diddy's office and be like," If you dont hire me, someone else will, and you'll regret it before two years are up"

What do you guys think? Any chance of this not succeeding?
IF it does not (I know it will succeed) then I'll start law school in the fall of next year.

[Roel]

The part of the plan that REALLY sucks is starting lawschool if it don't work out. Jee man.

[Freeform]

Hate to say it, but you sound a little to optimistic about your chances. There are probably a thousand people in new york with the same attitude as you. It's just not that easy. A college degree has nothing to do with a record deal unfortunately, so I'd think about entry level positions in labels and studios and work your way up the industry ladder. It's MUCH easier to work as a music industry rep than it is to be an artist.

With all that said, I wish you the best of luck and hope your dreams work out.

[CyanJaguar]

There are probably more than a thousand with the same attitude as me,

but I doubt that you would find a thousand of them with degrees in marketing (emphasis on marketing and not degree), an MBA, knowledge of the wildcard, and enough guts to move thousands of miles to pursue a dream.

I bet you would only find one of those - me.

I've said it before. I have seen mindblowing talent on this board, and I mean mindblowing, but how many people will sell their house and use the money to pursue a dream of music? not many.

I should also say that the ability to sell oneself is a huge differentiator. I was not born with this talent so I educate myself.

[Slackmaster2K]

1) You don't write excpetional hooks (at least not yet).

2) Your vocal intonation is still way off.

3) The music biz consists of wall to wall marketing people. The benefit of a musician/writer with marketing skills is nil.

4) College degrees do not qualify you for work anymore. Your degree just offers you a chance at a lowly position where you still have to learn your way to the top. Selling music isn't going to be the same as selling widgets.

5) If you read the bios of most pop artists today, they've all moved thousands of miles, slept in garages, gone without food, etc etc.

6) You insist on calling hooks wildcards

7) If the talent on this board blows your mind, then you've set your sights way too low. The people on this board are great and the music is a joy...but only one or two people in 4 years have blown my mind.


I'm being honest with you because I don't think that your plan of meeting p.diddy is going to launch any music career, and you could really screw yourself in the process. Take that 5K and use it as a down payment on a house. Get a job and spend all your free time writing music. Get a group together and perform as much as possible. Start a small indie label and make records for college bands. By the time you're ready to make a big move, you'll really be ready...and if it doesn't work out, you'll have something to fall back on.

Slackmaster 2000

[Roel]

Slack is VERY right. There's ALOT to learn. There always is.

I AM a guy that actually has quit his job, to make his music his life. And let me tell you, I've met LOADS of professionals, musicians with playing skills that you can hardly imagine, writing talents, I'm active in the audio/lighting industry, I know audioengineers that are AWESOME, and they are all just small guys doing their thing, making a living. None of them has any fame, but they make a living doing what they like.

When I see popstars or stuff like that, I don't see any similarities. Big industry is imagebuilding, media, and business. You can write great songs? Very good! But there's enough people that can do that, who are already on the payroll. You're good in business? Great. But we have good businessguys.

The only way to make it these days is run into the right guy at the right moment, when he thinks that you have the right face to stick his new mediaproject to.

Ow, those bios of rockstars etc... Very nice. Did I mention imagebuilding?

[Gidge]

Originally posted by Slackmaster2K
The people on this board are great and the music is a joy...but only one or two people in 4 years have blown my mind.....Gidge's talent as writer is just mind boggling.......

I know Im very talented, but I hate being singled out like that....its embarassing.........

[Gidge]

giving yourself one summer to make it gives you a one in a million chance at best........

maybe you should have tried out for P. Diddy's "Making The Band".....

[bdbdbuck]

Originally posted by Gidge
giving yourself one summer to make it gives you a one in a million chance at best........

The odds of getting into P. Diddy's office are even greater than that! Don't kid yourself into thinking he will EVER regret not hiring you. I have to admire your attitude, but the ONE THING you DON'T want to do is come across like someone who thinks he is the answer to all of their problems. It's a real quick way to learn that they really don't have any problems.........sept maybe deciding what they're gonna have for lunch. A lot of guys start out making that lunch for em. I dunno.....maybe slip a CD in the bag with the burgers. Just my .02, take it for what it's worth.


bd

[subtractor]

I honestly want to walk into P.Diddy's office and be like," If you dont hire me, someone else will, and you'll regret it before two years are up"

Watch mtv lately? He has about 30 finalist out of thousands competing, having to do a whole bunch of stupid shit for that position. Maybe you could get on next season.

[scottboyher]

Originally posted by CyanJaguar
What do you guys think? Any chance of this not succeeding?
IF it does not (I know it will succeed) then I'll start law school in the fall of next year.

One year? You are giving your dream one year?

[zekthedeadcow]

"Take that 5K and use it as a down payment on a house. Get a job and spend all your free time writing music. Get a group together and perform as much as possible. Start a small indie label and make records for college bands. By the time you're ready to make a big move, you'll really be ready...and if it doesn't work out, you'll have something to fall back on."

... funny...thats what I'm doing... minus the house... and my band broke up...I speant my 5k on an car, equipment, and my pathetic attempt at an associates degree... 5 years for a 2 year degree...thats what the army's done to me ... and I still have a bit to go...and I might go to afghanistan this fall if I can't get a job :\


question... what do studio's / lables want in looking for paid fulltime interns? a graduation from a recording workshop type place or just a mindless slave willing to learn from them..and who do you ask about positions?

[HyperSpace]

Originally posted by CyanJaguar
I decided that I finally have enough of what it takes to be in the industry and I am going to go for broke - next year when I graduate.

HEre is my plan. I think I have the three things one needs to succeed in music.

Marketing: I have a marketing degree, with a focus in selling.

Music : I know what listeners reward and can write them - WILDCARDS

Business: I'll have my MBA next year.



THE PLAN
What I want to do next year, as soon as I graduate, is take my savings (maybe $5k-6k ) and move to NYC for two months looking for a record deal or job with a big record label(BAD BOY, ARISTA)

The plan is to try to sell myself as
one: An artist who knows what the market wants, knows how to get it, and is not just looking for handouts.

IF that does not work,
two: A marketing person who knows how to find hit songs and has worked with enough artists to be able to get the talent together to make a hit offering.

I honestly want to walk into P.Diddy's office and be like," If you dont hire me, someone else will, and you'll regret it before two years are up"

What do you guys think? Any chance of this not succeeding?
IF it does not (I know it will succeed) then I'll start law school in the fall of next year.

Everything you can imagine can and WILL go wrong.

You seriously sound like a big head with an impossible dream.

As far as your degrees - they don't mean anything. So you have a degree in marketing, so what. So do millions of others. WHo says you know talent?

Who says you know what the industry wants?

What will happen is you'll move their, waste all your money and move back.

BTW - 5 to 6 thousand dollars isn't much. Better save up 30 g's to last a few months.

Also - what's 2 months gona get you? You have NO work experience, no resume, no documented talent.

THis is not personal attacks, it's dead honest truth from someone who knows the methods that successfull people in music business use.

[HyperSpace]

Originally posted by zekthedeadcow
"Take that 5K and use it as a down payment on a house. Get a job and spend all your free time writing music. Get a group together and perform as much as possible. Start a small indie label and make records for college bands. By the time you're ready to make a big move, you'll really be ready...and if it doesn't work out, you'll have something to fall back on."

... funny...thats what I'm doing... minus the house... and my band broke up...I speant my 5k on an car, equipment, and my pathetic attempt at an associates degree... 5 years for a 2 year degree...thats what the army's done to me ... and I still have a bit to go...and I might go to afghanistan this fall if I can't get a job :\


question... what do studio's / lables want in looking for paid fulltime interns? a graduation from a recording workshop type place or just a mindless slave willing to learn from them..and who do you ask about positions?

THis is precisely my plan.

I will slowly build a studio, catering to younger people who don't have the cash to pay hourly fees for a studio. I will use the money to get better equipment and learn more.

I will become known in the community I live in (whereveer that is at that time) and will build a vast resume of music I've done.

Then I will have a shitload to show for myself, and guess what.

not a single day spent in formal education in music.

Getting formal education in music is utterly worthless unless you wanna get free experience. Otherwise it's what you've done in the business (and not in school) that counts.

You're only as good as your last decision.

[HomeRec]

Okay, Cyan... here's a bit of a paradigm-twister for you, keeping in mind I am not really familiar with your work...

You have emphasized a strength - a slightly unusual one for the music industry. You have marketing education/savvy.

Therefore, it would logically follow that your "foot in the door" at a record label would be as an A&R or image marketing type.

You mentioned S(PD)C. He got his start doing A&R. Granted, it was a lucky break, but they all are in this industry. Why not get in at a label in a marketing/promotion capacity, hone your skills, and eventually use your influence to venture into artist/producer territory? Luck is definitely still required, but it sounds like you have a better chance as a marketer/promoter than as an artist.

Your whole "If you don't hire me..." statement reminded me of S(PD)C's "You want to make young, hip music, and I'm a young, hip guy" speech.

Best of luck, whichever route you take, and don't forget to sign all of your immensely talented Homerecording.com chums when you're rolling in the bling.

[CyanJaguar]

Sweet information guys. This is what I was gunning for when I started this thread.

Hyperspace, yeah, some of my best friends call me a smart Alec. I am not flaunting my education at all. I think its just something that many of the "making the band" dont have hence will do just about anything for the chance.

I know that 5 G's is nothing in New york, but I dont think you need 30 g's for 2 months of living. If one does, then they must have lived a rich lifestyle since birth - or are doing some mad drugs.

Trust me, these guys worry about more than lunch. Everybody in business is either looking to make money or save money. Show a business man how to do that, and he will listen to you.

Slack, thanks for the advice. I want to say though that few people ever got extra-ordinary results doing ordinary things.

As I said, this would be another business move for me, and if it does not work out, I can get a day job.

I have seen mindblowing talent, but I did not mean every body and their dog. If I was an Scout, I would probably sign only 2-4 specific people from this board as well.

I am still wanting to hear from anybody who has tried this though. I honestly plan to do it, but I want to be prepared for the unexpected.

[CyanJaguar]

Originally posted by HomeRec
Okay, Cyan... here's a bit of a paradigm-twister for you, keeping in mind I am not really familiar with your work...

You have emphasized a strength - a slightly unusual one for the music industry. You have marketing education/savvy.

Therefore, it would logically follow that your "foot in the door" at a record label would be as an A&R or image marketing type.

You mentioned S(PD)C. He got his start doing A&R. Granted, it was a lucky break, but they all are in this industry. Why not get in at a label in a marketing/promotion capacity, hone your skills, and eventually use your influence to venture into artist/producer territory? Luck is definitely still required, but it sounds like you have a better chance as a marketer/promoter than as an artist.

Your whole "If you don't hire me..." statement reminded me of S(PD)C's "You want to make young, hip music, and I'm a young, hip guy" speech.

Best of luck, whichever route you take, and don't forget to sign all of your immensely talented Homerecording.com chums when you're rolling in the bling.

Thanks for the ideas and encouraging words, Homerec. You hit my plan exactly. If they dont sign me for my artistic ability, I'll be just as happy getting a job as a marketing guy. More than one way to skin a cat.

One thing I know is that in the business side ( not the artistic side) it takes only ONE song to take a CD platinum( think Sisquo's Thong Song). 2 great songs and the person is suddenly a DIVA (think Shakira)

I love Sisquos story. He knew he had a good song that would make him money , so he did everything to get it to market, including going seriously into the red. I dont have that song yet, (or maybe I do) but a marketing job at a label would be just as good.

[HomeRec]

Originally posted by CyanJaguar
Thanks for the ideas and encouraging words, Homerec. You hit my plan exactly. If they dont sign me for my artistic ability, I'll be just as happy getting a job as a marketing guy. More than one way to skin a cat.

Right on, right on. And keep in mind that, even if you can't worm your way in as an artist/producer at the label you're working for, if you do well for the label, you will most likely make enough money to (a) make your own record, (b) make your own label, (c) make your own record and your own label, or (d) become president of the label and make it all a moot point.

Also keep in mind that, even if you do get the chance to have a go as an artist, it may not work out. Specifically, I'm thinking of Bob Rock (HUGE producer, on the extremely off-chance you've never heard of him) and his foray into music. I can't remember the name of his band, but it never got out of the gate. Not that he had anything to worry about - he could probably take up a career skinning grapes in the south of France and still never have to worry about money again. The main point is, in the end, it has everything to do with talent and marketability.

Practice, practice, practice!

[the dude]

i seriously think you are kidding yourself, man. sorry to be a buzzkill, but if you dont think thousands of people have already walked this road, you are kidding yourself. thousands! it is good to be confident but come on, dont let yourself become homeless in a couple of months. It is hard enough finding a regular job right now let a lone one in the business. I moved from PA to LA and am still working my ass of trying to get a record deal on ANY KIND and the music isnt the problem.

[CyanJaguar]

Originally posted by the dude
i seriously think you are kidding yourself, man. sorry to be a buzzkill, but if you dont think thousands of people have already walked this road, you are kidding yourself. thousands! it is good to be confident but come on, dont let yourself become homeless in a couple of months. It is hard enough finding a regular job right now let a lone one in the business. I moved from PA to LA and am still working my ass of trying to get a record deal on ANY KIND and the music isnt the problem.

well, where can I hear your music?

[dobro]

So, if his music is 'better' than yours, then the points in his post are valid? Is that what you're saying?

Bullshit.

The points in his post can stand on their own, without his having to produce any of his music. His music could be absolutely wonderful and he still might not have a contract coming his way - everybody knows that.

Re-read Slack's post. He said what I was going to say, plus extra.

[CyanJaguar]

this is for you DOBRO.

Originally posted by Slackmaster2K
1) You don't write excpetional hooks (at least not yet).

Its been almost a year since slackmaster heard anything from me. IN that time, the wildcard has become my ONLY focus.

2) Your vocal intonation is still way off.

Again, its been a year and mindsets have changed. Then, I was still trying to be a "singer" and sing in a popular range. Now I understand that all of that is secondary to the music.

3) The music biz consists of wall to wall marketing people. The benefit of a musician/writer with marketing skills is nil.

That's what a non-marketing minded person thinks. The benefit of a musician with marketing skills is actually immense. And the idea that one can't stand out in a crowd is borne primarily out of fear.

4) College degrees do not qualify you for work anymore. Your degree just offers you a chance at a lowly position where you still have to learn your way to the top. Selling music isn't going to be the same as selling widgets.

I agree with the first part. Performance on the job is what differentiates a person. I disagree with the second point. Selling is selling ( a profession), whether one is selling pink elephants or poetry.

5) If you read the bios of most pop artists today, they've all moved thousands of miles, slept in garages, gone without food, etc etc.

Or maybe they did not.

6) You insist on calling hooks wildcards

simply put, not all hooks/chorus are wildcards, and not all wildcards are hooks/choruses.

7) If the talent on this board blows your mind, then you've set your sights way too low. The people on this board are great and the music is a joy...but only one or two people in 4 years have blown my mind.

I only know two or three people on this board that blow my mind.

I'm being honest with you because I don't think that your plan of meeting p.diddy is going to launch any music career, and you could really screw yourself in the process. Take that 5K and use it as a down payment on a house. Get a job and spend all your free time writing music. Get a group together and perform as much as possible. Start a small indie label and make records for college bands. By the time you're ready to make a big move, you'll really be ready...and if it doesn't work out, you'll have something to fall back on.

Nobody ever got extra-ordinary results by doing ordinary things.
There is a lot of validity to the idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy. If you are negative and afraid, then you'll achieve negative results. If you are positive and confident, then you'll achieve positive results.
Slackmaster 2000 [/B]

[CyanJaguar]

Originally posted by dobro
So, if his music is 'better' than yours, then the points in his post are valid? Is that what you're saying?

Bullshit.

NO. If his music contains wildcards, then we have to look for another problem why he is not getting a record deal.

If his music does not contain wildcards, then that is the problem.

[bdbdbuck]

Cyan Jaguar,
Man, I'm not trying to burst your bubble and I admire your tenacity. The intent of my first post here was to prevent you from making what COULD be a mistake. Obviously someone who believes in himself like you do stands a much better chance succeeding in life. There are a lot of unknowns to you. Right now while you have the world by the tail, you need to know that there's teeth on the other end.
I responded to your post in my thread over in the mp3 clinic, and I don't know if you read it or not. I'm just saying it's not going to be nearly as easy as you think. Trust me on this one.


bd

[CyanJaguar]

Thanks for the reply. oh, I know that its not going to be easy. There will be rejections and rebuttals and what not. Think about it this way. There are more than 50 major labels out there. I only have to sell one.

I do sincerely believe that I have an offering that will add substantially to the financial bottom-line of any record company, and that is why I press on. 6 months ago, I would have said it was impossible, now I know that with lots of conviction, confidence, and persistence, the sale will be made.

There are a lot of unknowns to me, and I am realizing that the more I reduce the unknowns, the more my chances of success increase. ONe thing I know though is that record companies want to make money and I know that I can get the offering , that elusive smash hit, that will make them a lot of money.