Weird "flanging" effect on recorded tracks

[ljenab]

I recently moved my recording software (Guitar Tracks Pro) to a new PC (Dell w/P4, Audigy2, 512MB RAM, 7200 spin ATA100 HD, running XP). The first tracks I lay down sound fine, but once I get up to four or so, the whole mix starts "flanging" from speaker to speaker and in and out of phase. The more tracks, the more it sounds like I'm running the whole mix through a very slow flanger. Cool effect if I wanted it to happen, but not so cool when I'm going for a clear, punchy mix. I've heard of this happening on PC-based digital recording software, but I can't remember what the fix is.

Any help appreciated! I'll be happy to email anybody an .mp3 mixdown of what I'm working on if it will help in a diagnosis.

If it helps, the signal path is: Guitar --> Johnson J-Station (amp simulator) --> Audigy2 --> Guitar Tracks Pro.

Thanks,
LJ

[mixsit]

You have two playback paths mixing together?
Wayne

[AlChuck]

Here's what I suspect -- when you record subsequent tracks, you are also recording the pre-existing tracks into them along with the intended source.

When you play them back, you get comb filtering effects from the interference caused by the slight phase problems caused by the time it takes the played-back track to be recorded.

If you play along with a pre-recorded track, there is an inherent latency -- what you play will always be laid to its track a little later than you played it. Recording software compensates for this when you play back the track. But if the pre-existing track is also recorded, it too gets compensated for. The result is that the first track and its "copy" on the second track a slightly out of phase. Depending on the latency of your card, this might be barely noticeable the first time or two.

Repeat this and the first track and the third track have an even worse problem.

By the time you get to four or five, flange city!

It's easy to test if what I'm describing is true. Simply solo your third or fourth track (or mute all tracks but this one). If intsead of hearing just the source you also hear the other parts, that's your problem.

The most common cause of this is having the soundcard set to record everything that passes through its WAV data stream. On the SB cards, this setting is called "What U Hear." This should not be enabled; only the source (probably Line In) should be enabled for recording.

It's also possible to do this if you are using a external mixer wrongly and allowing the existing tracks to get routed together with the source signal while you record, but you don't indicate that an external mixer is involved in your case.

[ljenab]

Thanks for the response--I think you hit it. So, the fix is to change the input selected under the Record tab from "What U Hear" to "Analog mix" and uncheck in the "Source" tab everything but "Line In"? That appears to be the only way to isolate the line in, which is my source.

LJ

[AlChuck]

That's the ticket...

[ljenab]

Thanks again--that did it!

LJ

[James Argo]

Originally posted by AlChuck
That's the ticket...

It's only $20 plus 2 bucks shipping inside USA, or 5 bucks outside USA...

You can have it too here...

[Bstage]

Could this be a possible problem with a RME Multiface as well....

The Total Mix is a cool program but I seem to be having similar problems... Granted some of the beats I record over are extracted from CD, but the distortion sound I get is a audible noise that I hear on the mix downs from say 32 audio tracks to a stereo pair..

Do envelopes carry much load on the computer.. I am using them as a noise reduction tool mostly. I have a Athalon 1.4 with 768 DDR Ram... 7200 rpm.....

Im thinking 32 is close to my max on this computer... Is sonic disortion on mixdowns a result of this overload or would you say a input feed is more likely.. Mind you nothing is armed in Sonar Just the selected tracks for mixdown.

[moskus]

Originally posted by Bstage
The Total Mix is a cool program but I seem to be having similar problems... Granted some of the beats I record over are extracted from CD, but the distortion sound I get is a audible noise that I hear on the mix downs from say 32 audio tracks to a stereo pair..

You're sure we're not talking about clipping here?

And how do you use the envelopes as a noise-reduction tool? If you're talking about Sonar, they're volume-tools...

[Bstage]

Originally posted by moskus
You're sure we're not talking about clipping here?

And how do you use the envelopes as a noise-reduction tool? If you're talking about Sonar, they're volume-tools...

Same thing.. Im referring to silencing parts where the vocalist is quiet.... Im thinking of just chopping the audio out.... Mind you that I 4 track some vocals so any paper noise on track 1 and lip smacking on two add up to unwanted noise..... By using the envelopes to zero out everything I do not want I can get a better level of clarity ....

[moskus]

Of course. You might also consider a Mute-envelope, or perhaps a gate/expander.

[Bstage]

Originally posted by moskus
Of course. You might also consider a Mute-envelope, or perhaps a gate/expander.

Im thinking the combination of 30+ envelopes is causing unwanted distortion on the mixdown. I am looking into a fater hard drive... I think the 7200 is not quick enough to access 30+ tracks without distortion on the mixdowns... any deals on a 9600???

[moskus]

Originally posted by Bstage
Im thinking the combination of 30+ envelopes is causing unwanted distortion on the mixdown.

Really? Not on my system. I usually have 2 or 3 envelopes on everytrack, maybe more. I've not seen problems with many envelopes and mixdowns...