What ot charge people?

[ZEKE SAYER]

Most of you guys know that i'm real young. I was thinking of charging $15 a song with a minimum of 5 hours per song. Do you think that's good? Here's a list of some of the stuff that i got to work with:

Fostex vf-16
fostex XR-5
Behringer composer compressers (3)
Behringer ultra-graph pro eq
Art tube pre amp
Rca Studio monitors
Pentium II processor computer with windows ME, Acid 4.0 and Sound Forge Studio 6.0. ( i've also got about 8 loop cds)
Cx-series drum kit
Peavey TNT-100 Amp
RMS 50 Guitar AMP
Line 6 Pod 2.0
Korg Trinton AX1500 Guitar pedal
Dual tray cd burner
Tech. Tape deck
Alot of mics.

Any ideas as of how to start out?


thanks

Zeke

[longsoughtfor]

$3/hour is pretty cheap. I'd suggest you do a few things for free until you feel comfortable with your product and then start at a rate that at least covers the electricity

Also - try a search... this has been discussed in several forums quite a bit.

Cheers
Kevin.

[A1A2]

I agree with longsoughtfor, do it for free to get the feel and experience of working with people. You don't wanna have some strangers walking in and expect something totally out of your ability and not knowing what to do. Maybe then you can start charging by the state munimum wage and work your way up from there.

good luck with everything

Al

[ZEKE SAYER]

I have done some freebees once or twice. It's not like i just started doing this this year. come this aug, i have been recording for 4 years! So do you have any more ideas?

thanks

zeke

[Telefunken]

Dude! don't sell your self short, If you dont charge people all you are doing is cheating yourself. I charged 15 bucks an hour when I first started, and now charge $30.00.

Most people are going to think or know somethings up if your not charging, they will either think you don't know what your doing, or think, why the is this guy doing this for free? Act like you know what your doing and charge people.

Looks like you have some decent gear. Make you studio look professional by keeping it clean etc, and people will trust you.

anyway just my 2 cents.

Rich
www.richbischoff.com

[Emeric]

I agree with Telefunken 100%. $15 per hour, not for 5 hours - holy smokes...!

I've heard your recordings zeke, $15 per hour is more than reasonable. I started out charging $20 per hour, now I charge.... $20 per hour.....

[ZEKE SAYER]

I know and i would like to charge $15 an hour but alot of people have told me that because of my age, I should just charge $10-$15 for a song and then as i get more and more people to record and make more and more friends, i can jack the price up. I like your way of doing it but which one will work for me? Also, is it a good idea to write up a "Agreement" for the artist to sign, so that if he or she breaks something or something, i'll have that agreement in writting?

Thanks

zeke

[mshilarious]

One thing about contracts and your age (and your clients' ages), as a minor you can actually void any contract you don't like at pretty much any time. This is also true for your clients. If you have a minor in your studio who breaks something, they quite possibly might not be liable even if your contract states otherwise. On the plus side, if you sign a contract with a band you decide you hate, you can break it and they can't do much about it.

Moral of the story is be careful with people you don't know all that well. Get a legal adult (18+) to sign the deal with cash upfront.

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
...Also, is it a good idea to write up a "Agreement" for the artist to sign, so that if he or she breaks something or something, i'll have that agreement in writting?

Thanks

zeke

"Wear and Tear" on your equipment is just part of doing business. That's why you charge more than $3/hr. Making someone liable for your equipment is NOT good business practice.
For instance, how do I know it has broken before I got there, and you just blamed it on me?

Now, if you have a bunch of punk kids in there and they start smashing their guitars against your walls, thats another thing... those are malicious damages. But if they're acting that way they're not very serious about putting out a good product and probably shouldn't be there in the first place.

You need to screen your clientiel and make sure they're serious, well rehearsed, and ready to go to work when you hit record.

[DigitalDon]

$20/hour is not unreasonable, even at your age. Hell, these kids get more than that for mowing grass!! Charge too little and nobody will come around. Also, never, ever apologize to a customer for what you charge. Shows a lack of confidence in your abilities.

As far as someone breaking something. You're a minor and they will probably be minors. Have a couple of friends around, if necessary, and kick their ASS if they break something You're all minors

[ZEKE SAYER]

mshilarious,

Do you mean have an 18+ sign the contract as a whitness or are you talking about someone else? Tell me more about the contract laws so i can be ready for them if they come up.

[mshilarious]

No, you don't have to be 18 to sign a contract, but you are not bound to the contract if you are under 18. However, if the other person is over 18, they are bound. So if you sign a contract with somebody 18+, they must pay you. On the other hand, you could refuse to do the gig, you'd have to return their deposit but they couldn't do anything else to you.

If you sign a contract with somebody <18, they could track for 8 hours and say sorry, changed my mind, don't want to pay you.

This is why car dealers won't sell to minors, you can't get a credit card without a cosigner, can't lease an apartment, etc. It's not because you aren't legally allowed, you can contract for anything you want, it's just that the other person won't sign a contract with you because they know you can back out at any time.

Maybe the most famous example is Stevie Wonder, when he turned 18 he voided his contract (you have a short period of time after you turn 18 to do so) with Motown and negotiated a better deal.

My HS had a business law class, it was one semester and not too hard but they covered stuff like this which is very good to know. Check that out or maybe see if your community college has a basic business law or business management class.

[ZEKE SAYER]

So, if i record someone that is over 18, they are bound to the contract but i am not? So they have to pay me even if i am under 18. I'm just trying to make sure i got this thing down right.


Z

[mshilarious]

Yes that's right. You can sue their pants off, but they would have a much harder time suing you.

That is suing successfully. Anybody can sue anybody else for any reason, just depends on their ability to pay their lawyers and their willingness to have their asses laughed out of court.

Having said that, the general idea is to avoid lawsuits and voiding contracts. So if you agree to record a band then halfway through you kick 'em out cause they suck, you aren't legally liable, but it isn't going to do wonders for your reputation either.

[dumass]

Zeke---how old are u?

[Lt. Bob]

Hey Zeke.....at least $15 an hour.....or $20. Don't do it for less. If you're not gonna get enough money to be worth it......you may as well spend the time on your own projects.

It's not just to pay for your time ya' know......it's also because you have the capital investment in the equipment. You have to be compensated for that..........also......you are taking the risks with that equipment and with letting people know you have something worth stealing (again!).
As for getting anyone to pay for broken equipment.....good luck with that...........not gonna happen.
Also.........get some money up front.......claim you need 'supplies' or whatever.....and never never never never! ...
let any copies out of the studio without getting the green.





Oh........and you shouldn't ever charge me!

[giles117]

Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
I know and i would like to charge $15 an hour but alot of people have told me that because of my age, I should just charge $10-$15 for a song and then as i get more and more people to record and make more and more friends, i can jack the price up. I like your way of doing it but which one will work for me? Also, is it a good idea to write up a "Agreement" for the artist to sign, so that if he or she breaks something or something, i'll have that agreement in writting?

Thanks

zeke

Zeke, your opinion matters most. I was 15 and DJ'ing and charging $250.00 per show. (back in the 80's)

Hate to get preachy, but the bible says "Let no man Despise your youth, but be an example to them."

So who cares how old you are, if you know your stuff, then charge what is worth it to you to work. If they never use you, less headache for you. Remember the bible also says "Your gift will make room for you"

I was a very young sound engineer working a lot at 14 because I knew what I was doing. (at least in a technical sense. Couldn't mix my way out of a paper bag, but I made it work and work well.)

As far as agreements, I have one agreement. Pay me or I do nothing. I only right a simple contract for certain things. Like production work.

Seeing as I am a mix engineer, I tell them what to expect and they pay. If they are unhappy remember it is artists interpretation. But they never walk out my door with a 2 trk or otherwise unless I have cash in hand. Note I said CASH!!!! Checks develop those rubber tendancies, unless it is a Cashiers check or I know the client from repeated experience.

Bryan Giles

[frederic]

Deciding what to charge ultimately comes down to your gear, and your ability to use that gear, while taking into consideration alternatives artists can use aside from yourself.

There are also other "charges" to consider when running a pro or semi pro studio, which I will outline before.

Charge a "mic usage deposit", fully refundable when the mics go back into the foam cases. Microphones fit into pockets, and sadly if the studio is large enough you need eyes on the back of your head to keep track of everything.

I had a "guitar room" which I did the same - guitar players could use any guitar in there, but I swiped their card for the approximate value of the guitar, and refunded fully when the guitar was returned unscathed. A broken strings I didn't care about, gashes and dropping I did.

I also had a keyboard room, which I did the same thing.

Media charges - while nowadays DVD-R's and CD blanks are dirt cheap, when I had this studio I charged for media by the foot. 2" 24 track otari tape is not cheap no matter where you buy it. Make sure you are not only covering your labor at whatever price it is you want to charge, but don't go into a financial hole, even if small, by giving away media.

I also charged booking fees, which were refunded when they showed up. Essentially a booking fee is a non-refundable deposit, but I charged it this way because then NY state couldn't force me to refund it if a particular band/group/artist repeatedly cancelled last minute. Unfortunately, I had a few of those, but most of my customers were good people who were anxious to record.

While I charged by the hour (and not $15 either), I'd always have an endless supply of coffee, cream and sugar, often I'd bring in a box or two of donuts in the morning, pizza in the afternoon, etc. I seperated my rates based on rooms, so a vocal booth had one rate, the console room had another rate, and I had two practice rooms which weren't connected to anything but electrical, so they were much less costly to rent. But a few bands enjoyed them because they could play loud as hell and not have the police come and visit them. For me, it was a free $15 an hour per room, of which I had two. Got a lot of really late rentals too, was kinda strange.

Also, customers that booked larger quantities of time, say several days to a week, if they ran overhours during the days that they booked the entire place, I honestly didn't really care. It didn't cost me much to keep the lights on an extra hour, and its a nice gesture to allow the artists to get that last track down when their creative light is on full bright.

The only thing I was a real prick about was the pay phone in the lobby. ALL calls in and out to bands, artists and customers had to be done on the payphone. Period, end of discussion. Now that 10 y/o's have cell phones, this is moot.

Billing for me started the second I, or my assistant, walked into the console room or the main room, and started plugging in stuff. When I first started I only charged for recording/mixing time, but was losing many hours of my time setting stuff up before customers arrived and after they left. So, I started billing that out as well, at a lower rate than if some real engineering was involved.

I also had several "pig sty" fees, assuming there were potato chip crumbs all over the place, but I don't think I ever actually charged anyone. Most of my customers were very respectful of the recording environment, and of course, I made sure they knew I appreciated it. I did this by allowing overruns without the billing clock going.

One thing thats a nice "feature" of any studio that does work for someone else, is a detailed invoice. I had a full-fledged point of sale system that handled bookings, equipment rentals, and room scheduling, but what was slick was the itemized invoices, so clients could really see where their money was going. *I* as a consumer hate vague estimates turning into even more vague invoices, so this is a nice touch.

Also, should you ever be in a dispute over the bill, its easy to see that you charged approriately for CD-R blanks by counting the blanks in their hands. They have six, bill for six. Most of my customers really appreciated this.

And while it sounds like I nickel and dimed my customers to death, this ultimately translated to a $50 an hour rate plus media costs for most customers. Some were a hair over, some where a hair less, but thats about average.

Hope I didn't bore ya

[ZEKE SAYER]

Thanks fred, that's what i needed to hear. Your post had everything. Thanks













now i gotta run down to Dunk'n Donuts

[frederic]

Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
Thanks fred, that's what i needed to hear. Your post had everything. Thanks

now i gotta run down to Dunk'n Donuts

Oh, I just scratched the surface. I've been meaning to write a book on "how to run a professional studio - the business side" for nearly a decade. I just don't have enough round tuits.

Anyway, another good tip I can pass your way is keeping a bottle of scotch or burban in the drawer.

On rare occasions, a new, green vocalist gets "shy" in the studio and doesn't wallap out the vocal chops you know they can do.

A glass of scotch does two things - relax the singer - and soothes tense vocal cords.

A very old trick.

[fierojoe]

Originally posted by frederic
Oh, I just scratched the surface. I've been meaning to write a book on "how to run a professional studio - the business side" for nearly a decade. I just don't have enough round tuits.

If I had some round tuits to spare, I'd give ya a couple. I'd love to see your book on that.