Do the Pros use Autotune?

[Robertt8]

Just wondering how useful Autotune is if you've got a good singer. Is it really that transparent? It seems like it might help the track "punch" through the mix better.

Is this an essential in the studio?

[Blue Bear Sound]

If you have a good singer, then you don't really need it!

It's for the mediocre ones that studio have to resort to it.... used sparingly, it's an effective tool.... you wouldn't want to run a whole vocal track thru it though (although to be sure, some do!)

[sjjohnston]

Well, here's my two cents, for what it's worth (about two cents):

Yes, the pros do use Autotune. Some of them, some of the time, anyway.

Originally posted by Robertt8
Just wondering how useful Autotune is if you've got a good singer. Is it really that transparent?

So far as I can tell, it's pretty transparent, if its not wantonly overdone. "Transparent" meaning a listener who only hears the "autotuned" version can't tell whether or not it's on there (though he might well be able to tell the autotuned version apart from a non-autotuned version, if he heard them side-by-side).

Whether the performance might have been just as good, or better (more character, less perfection) without it is another question, which depends heavily on the singer.

Whether the performance might have been better without the Autotune, but with a better singer, is yet another question. But it's not an enormoulsy pertinent question in day to day life if you're not the person picking the singer.

It seems like it might help the track "punch" through the mix better.

I don't know about that. "Punch" would seem to be unaffected, unless you mean that with Autotune you can bear to turn up the vocal loud enough to hear it without cringing. Besides that, I suppose Autotune, if anything, diminishes the "punch" in a sense: obviously wildly off-pitch vocals do have tendency to draw attention to themselves.

Is this an essential in the studio?

A real "pro" could answer better. I guess it's essential if you want to make a not-that-good singer sound highly polished and radio friendly. Which is more-or-less what a lot of professional studios are hired to do.

[iwanarock]

Ever Hear any of Cher's recordings. That should answer the question, yeah they use it.

[willovercome]

don't bother with it. they're too tempermental. it takes time to get it all working right. i would rather track a bunch of vocal takes and then cut and paste for the best performance (intonation and emotion). actually i really think it usually sounds best if a whole verse/chorus is taken from the same track, that way the emotion, the volume and all that is exactly the same.

[Light]

It is used quite a lot. It is one of the only effects which I think is better used in a DAW than as an outboard processor, as it is much easier to be selective in a DAW.

It is NOT transparent, if you have a good ear. I can not listen to anything on top forty radio (except for SOME rap) with out hearing it.

No, it will not make anything "punch" through. It saps a vocal line of its feel and emotion, but it actually makes the vocal settle into the mix, if anything.

In case you have not noticed, I HATE autotune.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[eeldip]

ever wonder about that strange quality of shania twain's voice....

[crosstudio]

actually, you can use it on an entire vocal track if you are only trying to make changes that are not very dramatic.

in graphic-mode you correct notes that are badly off.

auto-mode you can think of as a compressor that limits the frequency range of the note rather than the volume of the note.

if you think of the tracking parameters like you would the attack of a compressor, you can set it such that you won't correct an egregious note unless it is held. so a singer who sings a little flat gets the longer notes corrected, but the shorter notes (less noticeable) get through pretty much untouched.

your mileage may vary.

[sjoko2]

Autotune sucks, and a good singer will just redo an errand note.

What happens a lot, more and more often, is that I get stuff in for mixing (tracked already), and some (or in some cases.. most) of the vocal tracks have got straight-up out of tune bits.
It simply amazes me that this escapes the attention of the artist, the engineer, the producer????? And in that case, what the fuck are they doing earning a living in music?
I am now at a point where I refuse to autotune such tracks, I just send them to LA to someone who does it all day, and pass all the costs on to the client.

On another 'note', an interesting thing of working with people from other continents, particularly Africa, is that different regions have different scales, and what we think is out, might be just perfect to them. Tuning your ears to this is not easy, I've had to practise polyphonic scales for weeks before being able to mix such tracks.

[crawdad]

In a word, yes. Even before Autotune, there were sampling devices which could copy out of tune vocal sections, tune them up, and fly them back to tape. Engineers viewed such tuning options as a neccesary evil. If you worked with some of the vocalists who've somehow managed to get record deals, you would too! Now, with the advent of the digital studio, Autotune is probably sitting in the plug-ins folder of every DAW in every pro studio out there. Its the old "we'll fix it in the mix" philosophy.

Even without Autotune, there are DAW programs that allow you to tune or transpose audio by cents, so you can take a word or a note and fix a mistake or two. Let's face it--I bet that almost every record you hear these days has some pitch correction somewhere--unless the singer has very good pitch anyway.

I do not use Autotune, but I have done some pitch corection via DAW software in Digital Performer. I once did a track for a famous guy who was a writer as a side trade, but had never sung a song in a studio before. He was 80 years old at the time, did a good job, but there were a few notes that were flat. I fixed him up and it sounded natural. Not at all like Autotune.

"Cheating?" yes! However, I had no other option, as the song was part of a larger package--something like 200,000 units. I had to make it pro sounding. I don' tthink Autotune would have done him justice, either.

[moley]

Originally posted by Light
It is used quite a lot. It is one of the only effects which I think is better used in a DAW than as an outboard processor, as it is much easier to be selective in a DAW.

It is NOT transparent, if you have a good ear. I can not listen to anything on top forty radio (except for SOME rap) with out hearing it.

No, it will not make anything "punch" through. It saps a vocal line of its feel and emotion, but it actually makes the vocal settle into the mix, if anything.

In case you have not noticed, I HATE autotune.

You nailed it, Light.

It's used a lot, you can hear it in a lot of Top 40 stuff - and it's not transparent. Though - to be fair, to be able to accurately make that statement, one would need to be able to find out definitively which songs have been autotuned and which haven't. But, I do hear it on a lot of top 40 stuff, and I recognize its sound and the effect it has on vocals. And I don't like it!

And with regard to making it "punch through" - Noooo! No no no!

I would say just the opposite. Like Light said, it takes some (and often a lot) of the human element out of it. It takes away some of the subtleties that make a voice what it is. The subtleties that make one singer sound different to another.

And, you've gotta realise that (at least IMO, but I suspect many many many others' too) - the perfect vocal track is *NOT* perfectly in tune. A solo line will actually punch though more, if it is that slight bit sharp, compared to the accompaniment. And many good singers do this, quite probably without realising.

[tmix]

Like many things Autotune is just a tool and not a "magic talent replacer". I have used Autotune for years and as the years go by I find I use it less and less, only to fix a localized problem generally (if possible). My only real exception is on Background vocals. I use it to tune them when I want light airy not in-your-face kinda sound.

I hate using it on really up front exposed vocals.

I do love using it on solo instruments like flute, recorder,violin etc
where during the long recording hours they tend to change pitch as they warm up. I have had flutes change nearly a quarter step flat in one 3 minute pass.

It HAS saved me some retakes and studio time.

[Aaron Cheney]

I will third what light said: it is not transparent, and you can easily pick it out on just about anything. Listen to the newest Sugar Ray album for example. It is all over it, and it is glaringly obvious.
I can't wait for the revolution to begin, when humans will fight back against the machines.... when music will again be made by humans..... when engineers and producers will allow the music to sound like it was made by humans..... when audiences will once again enjoy music that sounds like it was made by humans......

Sorry.... I just saw Matrix last weekend.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com

[DeadPoet]

A few years ago you could get hired because you knew alsihad... now everyone knows how to use it, all they're interested in is people that fly with autotune and beat detective. I've seen it being used all over ... pop, rock, *classical*,... Imagine having an entire orchestra, hired, in a studio and a great performance played by the soloist, but there's this *one* note a bit off-key.... economy...

I was hired this once to play a demo for some project and the drummer was ... well... not good Instead of wasting a day to get the right track we just beat-detective-d it in an hour - the tech was really flying over the track and was doing his black magic..

ButttttT....... like tmix says: those tools are for local problems mostly. Tuning entire tracks is only a last option.


Herwig

[Robertt8]

I think what I'm hearing here is that you guys all LOVE autotune and use it on every track for that extra kick and to add life to an already lively mix!.

[DeadPoet]

yeah, next thing you're gonna say is that drummers have metronomic timing, that modern recordings are dynamic, that guitarists can read notes, that bassists can think, that vocalists can sing in tune and that the earth is round ??


C'mon ...




Herwig (AT is a useful tool, and like all audio tools to be used with care)

[foreverain4]

i think autotune has become a signature in country music as much as a steel guitar. lol i have to laugh every time i hear a country tune. what gets me, is that the engineers obviously dont hear it.

[moley]

Originally posted by Robertt8
I think what I'm hearing here is that you guys all LOVE autotune and use it on every track for that extra kick and to add life to an already lively mix!.

Never used it, and I have no intention of doing so.

[Son of Mixerman]

IM lucky enough I guess I don't own one. The last singer that came in did about 4 takes and wanted to listen. We did playback and he said "Im out" He was only so slightly out, I mean it wasn't obvious, I sampled the note and put it thru a tuner and it flickered between flat and right on.. Instead of asking for a pitch correction, he set the headphones down and said he'd be back in a few months after he practiced that section. Well I added some verb which made it nice and sent him on his way with a copy of the song. I know have 2 of his friends wanting to come in before July for a BarberShop quartet for one and the other guy want to do some piano vocal arrangement.. I told him I respected him as an artist, Sinatra didn't need one, he doesn't like the idea of technology being a crutch. I hope its contagious


SoMm

[pipelineaudio]

thanks to all the peckerheads buying into american idol, avil lasagna and all the other crap, the ability to play or sing, is a NON issue

thanks guys

so now you cant hear radio at ALL without autotune on it

in the past they tried to hide it, now it is blatant

this FAST NOW CHEAP mentality and an emphasis on looks over performance has brought us to a new unimaginable low

now its get em in get em out

well have an intern run beat detective on it and just throw autotune in AUTO MODE ( !!!! ) on it NOW, quick get the band ready for their pictures

[chessparov]

When I asked this question in a "pro" forum, they averaged out about 85%+ usage for pop and rock genres, 1/3 of the time for
R&B and Gospel. Think that tells us about the difference in level of commitment in the singer, between each genre, doesn't it?

I enjoy Jo Dee Messina's music/singing, but you can really hear the Autotune on it, for example.

Chris

[Michael Jones]

As with any tool, the mark of a true professional is knowing how to use it effectively, when its use is appropriate, and where its use is not.
If it were me, I'd strive for another take or partial, but like some one else said, the when and where depends a lot on the level of the singers talent.