Recording upright piano

[welldonep]

Hello . . . just a query on recording piano . . . I will be recording some piano tracks this weekend. This will be my first attempt at recording piano, which I've heard is somewhat difficult to record.
I have a small but decent selection of mics, and will be interested in trying my Rode NT4. Has anyone had any experience recording an upright piano with an NT4? My other mics are: stereo pair of Studio Projects C1's; Rode NT2; Rode NTV; AKG C3000. I also have some lower-level tube mic pre's (ART / Presonus), and was wondering if those would be better than the mic pre's on my Mackie mixer? If anyone has any suggestions at all, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks, and cheers!

Peter

[RecordingMaster]

I wouldn't worry at all dude.

I really donk think you should nuts with a bunch of different mikes on the piano, not to say you were going to, just sometimes people over mike things. And that's fine if you want it to sound so polished that the emotion is lost.
I would say (without even ever having to have miced an upright piano) that you would be just fine with one mic stuck in there. Don't worry about the fancy names or types of mics to use, just take one that you know records a good clear sound with no statik, etc, and stick it right into the piano. Give it breathing room so it picks up all the keys and not just the ones that its near. If you use one, use an omnidirectional, if you simply must use more than one, use once again another mic that you know is good and clear and omnidirectional, i wouldn't suggest using unidirectionals because you never want to point a mic at just one thing if you're trying to mic a whole piano's worth of notes.

[TexRoadkill]

Try different combos and see what works. Most importantly pull the piano away from the wall so the soundboard has plenty of space around it. Open up the top and mic somehwhere around the back a few feet off.

[welldonep]

Thanks much for the responses. I don't consider myself an engineer, but feel that I've done a decent job with acoustic guitars and vocals relying on the most important thing . . .
my ears! So I'll probably be fine. I've just read so much about
piano being difficult to record, so I thought I'd inquire.

Cheers! Peter

[dafduc]

From the BIG THREAD:

Originally posted by Harvey Gerst
Harvey,

You touched on grand pianos several times, but never really got that in depth on them. To give you a bit of background, I want to make recordings of my grand in my home. It's in a fairly small and dead room, and this is the only instrument I intend on recording in the foreseeable future.

If I have indeed understood things, then I should be looking for a small diaphragm condensor or dynamic microphone for accuracy instead of coloration (that larger diaphragms give), and a fairly low self noise to catch intimate passages adequately. I also gather that I should be looking for an omni-directional or wide cardioid pattern. And, I should probably look for a pair (matched if possible) for stereo recording.

Yes, those mic patterns are usually the best choices for people in your situation (i.e., small, non-treated room, home recording, small budget, and not a lot of previous mic placement/acoustic treatment knowledge). That wasn't meant as a putdown, BTW. You have the advantage of time, compared to studio recordings, where the clock becomes very important.

Stereo piano recordings are usually the most natural sounding, as far as recording techniques, but it's also possible to do an artificial stereo recording that duplicates the emotional impact of a stereo recording, without using recognized stereo techniques (like recording from underneath the piano for the low notes, and from above for the treble).

I'll stop here and ask a question: there was a list of possible microphones given a few pages back, and you gave some general comments on those (and I've made a note of that list). In my case, I don't have the luxury of having multiple microphones to play with looking for the sound I want, or a convienient way of purchasing on trial different mics to audition. Instead, I'll have to make the best informed decision I can, and hope that the mic pair I purchase is satisfactory. Could you give any suggestions for a specific mic? If you only had one shot at recording a grand (not in a concert hall, mind you), and could only choose one mic model and hope for the best, what mic would you choose?

I can't really answer that without hearing the actual room and the actual piano. My first concern woulld be the actual acoustics of the room, and then I would be concerned about the evenness of the tone of the piano.

Am I hearing any peaks or dips in the sound as you play while I walk around the room? Do I need to put up some packing blankets or move furniture around? Is the piano thin or full in different ranges? Is it bright or mellow?

As far as mics, I'd be more concerned about acoustics and placement than I would be about the choice of microphones. Most 1/2" condenser mics are pretty similar, so whichever mics were fairly flat, and low noise, would be the ones I'd bring. I'd also bring a pair of the Behringer ECM8000s, just on the chance they MIGHT work well, since $70 for a pair is kinda a no-brainer.

Now, about placement. As I said the room is fairly small and dead (and could easily be made 'more dead' if that would indeed be helpful). From reading your wonderful advice, it would seem that an X/Y pair (or perhaps even near-coincident) a couple of feet to the side of a high-stick lid would be a good place to start with placement... if the room was nice. Mine is not. Perhaps bringing the mics closer (under the open lid) to record in their near-field would help to reduce the effects of room modes and odd wall reflections.

Yes, no, maybe. You have the luxury of time. Try everything you can think of. As I said, my first concern would be the effects of room modes and odd wall reflections, and I would try to eliminate them (or reduce them) as much as possible. Once those are tamed, then it would be time for experimenting with mic placements.

Which brings me to my second line of questions. I've heard several people speak of good results with wide spaced micing under the lid of a piano. Wouldn't that cause phasing problems? I'm not really interested in mono compatibility (since this will be primarily for friends and family), but I want to avoid as many complications as possible. Would an X/Y setup under the lid have trouble with a balanced frequency response, especially considering that some strings might be in the near-field while more distant ones would not? It would seem for that omnis might be better suited than cardioid...

Yes, no, maybe - see paragraph above. First, fix the room, then understand the instrument (and the way it radiates sound), then choose the best location to capture the desired sound. Usually, my motto is, "The worse the room, the closer the mics".

I suppose the bottom line questions is: If you were attempting to record a grand in such a room, where would you start? I know that mic placement plays a role in mic choice as well, so that makes it that much more difficult for me. I think you understand what I'm after... the crucial part is choosing a mic pair that is workable, and I can play with placement ad infinitum (but starting suggestions are nice).

All the above suggestions would be the way I would approach recording a strange piano in a strange location. But if it's a paying gig, I would bring almost every damn mic I had that I think just might sound good. That's not an viable option for you. What's your budget for mics? Is the piano bright or dark? What kinda music? What registers will the bulk of the playing be in, and how does the piano sound in those registers? How much is the room altering the sound? Without a better handle on those questions, I can't help much more on your situation.

Daf

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Well Done Filet Mignon:

I have a very simple idea. Take a mic, or try different mics, tape the mic to the "soundboard" of the piano.

Check your levels and see what happens.

Green Hornet

[Jeyan]

If you are using two mics to get a stereo wave, make sure you see the Piano string pattern first, the old ones mostly have straight strings.....the new ones come with crossed strings, so your panning may differ. Take that into consideration along with all the useful tips provided by our friends. Good Luck!

[Scinx]

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_m...ages/Piano.htm

Go nuts