Upgrading gear, NEED YOUR OPINIONS!!

[FattMusiek]

Over the summer, when I get a job, (I was fired from my most recent one haha) I will be upgrading my gear. My setup right now is:

Delta 44 soundcard/breakout box (4 I/O)
Behringer 1604A 4 mic input mixer
2 Oktava MK012 Cardioid Condenser mics, 2 57s (though I can only use one of them with my current setup), and a Beta 52.

My main purpose for upgrading is to be able to mic a drumset COMPLETELY: 2 overheads (I'd use my Oktavas ), kick drum (my Beta 52) micing snare with 2 mics (two 57s over and under), micing all toms, and hi-hat micing.

Now, to do this I would need at least a 9 I/O soundcard and a 9 XLR input mixer and more mics.

<b>What I need are YOUR opinions about what SOUNDCARD and MIXER to buy! </b> I am not sure that I trust those soundcard/breakout boxes that have lots of built in preamps, I would rather have a mixing console.

Help would be appreciated <b>so much! </b>

(I posted this in the Computer Recording/Soundcards board but no one seems to care, I don't mean to spam. I'll include my posts from that thread here...)

[FattMusiek]

I forgot to include my Yorkville YSM1p monitors. I am willing to spend *around* 3,000 if nessecary.

Meshuggah recommended the Soundcraft Spirit M12 and the Delta 1010. I've heard lots of good things about the Spirit M12 preamps. The Delta 1010 doesn't really appeal to me with the 2 digital ins and 8 I/Os.

I was thinking either getting a Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) audio interface or an Aardvark audio interface (they have to have at least 12 I/Os, I want at least 12 I/Os. If these interfaces have built in preamps they're no goes, I want to buy a mixer as well.) I was thinking a Mackie 1604-VLZ PRO:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...l/base_id/39734

Whaddya think?

Basically I want to know what mixer (Mackie 1604-VLZ PRO or the Soundcraft Spirit M12) and soundcard. The soundcard needs to have at least 12 I/O for drum micing and live band recording purposes.

OPINIONS NEEDED!

[FattMusiek]

Geez, what's it take to get a reply around here?

[sae]

sounds to me like you already know what you want

[FattMusiek]

I wanna know if the Spirit pres are better than the Mackies or vice versa. I wanna know what you think the better soundcard is (or one I haven't mentioned) or one you think would fit me well.

[schwa]

Which sound card has a lot to do with the drivers you are going to use. ASIO or WDM? The AArk WDM drivers leave something to be desired for example.

I'd check with other users of your application and find out what they have had some success with. I personally use SONAR, and have had great luck with my MOTU gear.

[chessrock]

Hey Fatt . . .

I think the subjects of your inquiry may have been covered here once or twice in the past. Like once or twice every hour.

You might try doing a search.

Shouldn't be difficult to find opinions on Mackie versus Soundcraft . . . or "best 10-input soundcard," or "Aardvark versus 1010 versus MOTU" and that sort of thing.

Again, I think that territory has been very well-covered.

Best of luck to you!

[FattMusiek]

Yeah, yeah.

I couldn't find anything about a soundcard with more than 10 I/Os when I searched, eek.

[TexRoadkill]

I would reevalutate your goals before spending any money. Micing the toms is pretty superfluous and micing the hihat is completely insane.

[FattMusiek]

Well, I think tom micing has its uses, especially the floor tom. They don't come out in my mixes. Lots of people mic their hats too. The upgrade is also to have the ability to record a bad all at once.

[knightsy]

Get a 001. I don't care what people say about protools, its a quick, effective way to get where you want to go. I know a mastering engineer ffs who uses a 001 when he is producing bands instead of another system that cost him $350,000! Why? Because he believes that the difference is not enough to worry about.

Micing hihats could be essential if the drummer plays lot of detailed little parts on the hat. U really need to mic everything, so you don't miss out on some interesting part of the performance.

[FattMusiek]

A Protools device eh? How much do these things go for?

[FattMusiek]

K, it goes for about $800, a good deal. Only problem is it has only 8 I/Os. It comes with the software too, thats cool.

[knightsy]

Yeah it comes with 8 I/0, but it can be expanded to 16 (theoretically 18, but no-one I know has done it) with an ADAT lightpipe. Now those folks at Behringer have obviously seen the light and are going to release in July/August a 2U rack of 8 preamps with, you guessed it, an ADAT output on the back! So this should set you back about $250/$300. Can you wait until next quarter?

This is what I am looking at doing myself. Sure the Behringer preamps are not gonna be fantastic, but at least you can get your ins for recording drums. Then you can go back and overdub things with nicer preamps.

[FattMusiek]

I have a Behringer right now, and the preamps are very mediocre. I need a sound card with more than 10 I/Os.

[knightsy]

Dude IT CAN BE EXPANDED TO 16 for crying out loud!

There are other more xpensive ways to get the other 8 ins anyway. Look, I'm not gonna beat my head against a wall. This is the best option available at the moment, you'd have to be a lunatic to consider the other packages.

Ask a mastering engineer what he/she thinks if you're unsure. A bona fide, dyed in the wool, 15 - 10 years experience engineer I mean. Someone whose job it is to hear differences in sounds, and doen't take on board opinions that he picked up off a forum without at least LISTENING to the gear first.

[FattMusiek]

Roger that.

Don't be a ass. I suppose you're right.

[chessrock]

Yea dude, like chill out.

No need to bite poor Fatt's head off like I did.

I can do that stuff, though, because I'm not some lowly newbie. You have to earn your stripes before you can pick on a Senior member.

[malcolm123]

LOL

Check out a Tascam DM24 and a Motu 2408.

Thats should cover all you need as far as tracking capabilties.

$3,000 Right?

Malcolm

[FattMusiek]

"You have to earn your stripes before you can pick on a Senior member." YEAH!

The MOTU 2408 is REALLY tickling my fancy, but once again, only have 8 I/Os, right? Is there a way to double these? Some ADATpipe...? I read someone talking about this...

Can anyone elaborate? (I've been recording for less than a year, gimme a break )

[malcolm123]

Originally posted by FattMusiek
"You have to earn your stripes before you can pick on a Senior member." YEAH!

The MOTU 2408 is REALLY tickling my fancy, but once again, only have 8 I/Os, right? Is there a way to double these? Some ADATpipe...? I read someone talking about this...

Can anyone elaborate? (I've been recording for less than a year, gimme a break )

It has 24 total i/os in different configurations.

8 analog > If you use the 8 analogs this leaves you 16 Digital either Adat Lightpipe or Tdiff.

If you dont use the 8 analog > This leaves you with 24 digital.
The 24 digital can be used as all Adat Light pipe or All Tdiff
Or you can mix and match the 24 digital with 8 Tdiff and 16 Adat or 8 Adat and 16 Tdiff, etc.

Very flexible unit.

Oh, Or spdif

follow me ?
Malcolm

[FattMusiek]

Sort of. I want FULL tracking capabilities, I'll want a mixer to go with the massive amounts of digital inputs the MOTU would provide me with. Reasonable or foolish?

[malcolm123]

Originally posted by FattMusiek
Sort of. I want FULL tracking capabilities, I'll want a mixer to go with the massive amounts of digital inputs the MOTU would provide me with. Reasonable or foolish?

I use a couple of Tascam Tmd4000s
The Tascam DM24 is the new version of my console.

32 channels, 8 analog and 24 digital in either Adat or Tdiff or Both.

[FattMusiek]

Ah, so digital mixers (like the Tascam DM24) can support the 24 digital I/O, analog mixers (like the Soundcraft Spirit M12) can only use the 8 analog I/Os...right?

Theres something about these newfangled digital devices that just doesn't settle right with me. I can't explain it.

By the way, thanks for your posts Malcom!

[malcolm123]

Originally posted by FattMusiek
Ah, so digital mixers (like the Tascam DM24) can support the 24 digital I/O, analog mixers (like the Soundcraft Spirit M12) can only use the 8 analog I/Os...right?

Theres something about these newfangled digital devices that just doesn't settle right with me. I can't explain it.

By the way, thanks for your posts Malcom!

Depends on the mixer.

For Analog the amout of channel denotes the amount of track seperations. If you go with a analog mixer and need more than 8 channels, its gonna cost you to get a interface like the Motu that will convert your analog signals that run into the mixer to be store on a digital storage medium like a PC or hard disk recorder.

And to get some really Good sounding analog to digital interfaces would be way out if your budget.

If you get a analog mixer that needs more that 8 i/os. I would get a analog multichannel recording device. ie 8 track reel to reel recorder, old Adat's or something.

The pro stuff for this would be like a 2" 24 channel Studer or something like that. $$$$$

Macolm