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#1
05-27-2003
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Which do you prefer: Racks or effects plugins?
Just a friendly little topic
__________________
Listen to my songs at: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...y.php?aid=2076 The purpose of a cable is to get stuck under everything in its path. 
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#2
05-27-2003
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I prefer racks and I still dont trust software plugins. When you have a dedicated processor running for an effect in a rack, you will definitely get reliable output. Plugins put more effort on your computer and I dont think they would come any closer to racks. This is just my opinion, lets hear it from other too. By teh way I just noticed that you are from Virginia. Where do you buy your gears?
__________________
JJeyan
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#3
05-27-2003
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Re: Which do you prefer: Racks or effects plugins?
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Depends on when and what they may need to be applied to. Malcolm
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#4
05-27-2003
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Re: Which do you prefer: Racks or effects plugins?
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Now I'm sure there are some good (read, expensive) add-ins that would work, but for me, I prefer hardware....!
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#6
05-27-2003
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Nuthin' BEAT's pretty, LED light's in different colors, knobs, switches and buttons!!!
Plugin's require extra memory from your com-pooter and the only thing you use to operate it is a d@mn mouse!! Racks and Racks of outboard gear also looks more impressive to prospective clients than some,ole beat up Mac or p.c.! RACKS RULES!!!  
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#7
05-27-2003
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Quote:
I need more Lights. All different colors, the more the better. LOL Malcolm824
__________________
Strap it Cross Dat Stereo Buss !!
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#8
05-27-2003
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"plug-ins = a poor man's hardware"
LOL! I KNEW someone would say that.
__________________
Listen to my songs at: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...y.php?aid=2076 The purpose of a cable is to get stuck under everything in its path.
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#9
05-27-2003
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It's been discussed once or two back then... but whatever... it's fun
 I'd rather rack in pro studio... Plugins in homestudio... Jaymz <-- rich enough to afford rack, but way too poor to get more space
__________________
 Keep Rockin' and Rollin'...
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#10
05-27-2003
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I prefer plugins for compression and limiting...anything to decrease noise, eh?
I also prefer my Lexicon Reverb unit to just about any reverb plugin I've ever heard, but I will say that at least the Waves/Renaissance stuff has enough parameters to basically re-create anything...just takes more effort.
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#11
05-27-2003
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I'm kinda torn on this one. I agree with you, chrisharris, that the RenVerb can do some pretty amazing stuff for a reverb plug, but I also think that harware sounds better. I can't think of any case where plugs sound *better* than hardware.
On the other hand, plugs are just so damn convenient! When I think of the amount of work required to patch in my RNC for the lead vocal (dig out and untangle the cables, hook 'em all up, route the vocal through a hardware outpout, back to the computer, set up the send volume, shift the track to compensate for the delay, tweak the knobs, write down the settings) and think about having to do all that all over again when I want to come back to the song... Fuggit. Waves RenComp sounds plenty good enough for me- I only need a light touch of it, anyway. Pretty silly, really. I have a nice outboard compressor- you'd think I would have set up the studio so that I could use it without hassle. If I had a couple more pieces of decent hardware and a patch bay I'd be all over it. Since my hardware doesn't sound that much better than the plugs, and I don't yet have it set up to use conveniently... I'd have to say I prefer plugs. For ease of use, if for no other reason. You've got me thinking about that patchbay, now, though. That might be one of my next steps.
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#12
05-27-2003
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Excuse me, but you can't compare Waves with Racks.....
Waves is rack..... Traped in plugin shape...
__________________
Keep Rockin' and Rollin'...
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#13
05-27-2003
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if you are gonna compare a rack unit to a plugin, you need to give the plugin a fighting chance by going $$$ for $$$, and not some cheap "included with recording software" plugin.....
now lets say on a typical mix you are gonna run 3 different types of reverbs, 2 different compressions, a delay, a chorus at the very least....... 5 of the cheapest Lexicons(3 for reverb, 1 chorus,1 delay) @$199 = $1000 2 RNC's = $350 thats $1350 right there not counting and special effects you might include.....and obviously a mixer to run all those effects is gonna be a pretty penny...... so if you are gonna compare, you should be looking at the top of the line plugins and not those "cheapy ones" the best things about a plugin is that when you have a reverb plugin, you have as many channels as your computer can handle.....when you have 1 hardware reverb, you have one channel.....
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#14
05-27-2003
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if you are gonna compare a rack unit to a plugin, you need to give the plugin a fighting chance by going $$$ for $$$, and not some cheap "included with recording software" plugin.....
now lets say on a typical mix you are gonna run 3 different types of reverbs, 2 different compressions, a delay, a chorus at the very least....... 5 of the cheapest Lexicons(3 for reverb, 1 chorus,1 delay) @$199 = $1000 2 RNC's = $350 thats $1350 right there not counting and special effects you might include.....and obviously a mixer to run all those effects is gonna be a pretty penny...... so if you are gonna compare, you should be looking at the top of the line plugins and not those "cheapy ones" the best things about a plugin is that when you have a reverb plugin, you have as many channels as your computer can handle.....when you have 1 hardware reverb, you have one channel.....
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#15
05-27-2003
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I wonder if the reason that we for the most part like rack better is because that's what we're used to, if someone only started and only used plug-ins would they think racks sounded bad? you know the same way the vinyl VS cd was/is, granted cd's back than we bad sounding. But it's just a matter of time before plug-ins match racks, after all what are most outboard gear but dedicated computers, once they stop having to compomise for slower computers... than we'll have something!
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#16
05-27-2003
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Okay, here's what my Lexicon CAN'T do, lol...
Sometimes, I'm using overlapping verbs, and they need to have different EQ's and predelays so they don't walk all over each other, and dammit...sometimes math is even required. The parameter options are definitely a bonus, and if I'm totally honest about it, there's NOT a reverb sound that comes out of my Lexicon that I couldn't recreate pretty accurately if I had about 2 years to jack around with the plugin, lol. .
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#17
05-28-2003
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The idea that you can use more plugins is nice but how many different effects paths do you really need? A lot of the hardware units give you 2-4 discreet effects paths and with aux sends you can send as many channels as you want to a certain effect.
It is easier to do delay tricks with plugins. I'd love to have more compressors and that is another area where plugins are nice. The bigger issue is what kind of sadist mixes on a computer
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#19
05-28-2003
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I like to "keep it in the box"...
I should start by saying I'm a hobbyist, not a pro (please don't hurt me sonusman).
But I would weigh in for the plugs, if you count DSP plugs as well. For my system, its great to do everything from within the DAW application, multiple eqs, compressors, etc. Currently I'm making do with Renverb, but I think I am going to add a UAD1 soon. The verb included is supposed to be very nice, and they're about to add Dreamverb, which is supposed to be a step up from there. With a dual monitor setup and the Mackie Control, I can see all the lights and stuff that would normally be in the rack, and I can turn knobs to adjust the parameters. This all said, I still do extenal compression on incoming vocals, and a hardware verb for monitoring. I don't like the latency issues associated with other hardware use though. If I was a pro, the quality of the plugs would be more of an issue I suppose, but for a bedroom recordist, its tough to beat the convenience of plugs.
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#20
05-28-2003
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Indeed, with a UAD, mackie control and dual monitor setup you're hands on, but almost at the price of going outboard. Most of us here can't afford a UAD or have other priorities above a control surface.
Herwig
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#21
05-28-2003
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I prefer plug-ins.
for a typical song i'll have kick, snare, hat, cymbals, and toms on separate tracks. bass, guitar, keys, pads on separate tracks. background vocals and lead vocals on different tracks. that would mean i'd need to individually compress and re-record each track that needed compression, or I'd have to purchase no less than 7 compressors (since some of the above tracks are mono its not 1 for 1). now my mixer only has 3 EQ knobs (high, mid sweep, low) and a bass cut for each channel. which means I also need at least 2 (or a stereo) parametric EQs lying around. then when i've got the individual tracks taken care of from a compressor/EQ standpoint, i'm going to need at least 3 FX processors. HARDWARE: $2525 7 compressors: RNC's ($175 x 7) $1225 2 parametric EQ: ART Dual Tube EQ $400 3 fx processors: Lex MPX-200 ($300 x 3) $900 SOFTWARE: $1900 Waves gold bundle $1200 PC (2.6ghz mb/cpu combo, 512m ram, 40g/80g hds, winXP) $700 I tried to compare apples to apples as far as quality is concerned. I'd rather have the plugins because it is cheaper to upgrade my PC than it is to buy new hardware when I need more tracks.
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#22
05-28-2003
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Quote:
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#23
05-29-2003
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Like anything else, it depends on the plug, and it depends on the outboard gear in question.
Most of the time, I must admit that I'd probably prefer the sound of good outboard gear. But then, not all of it is good. And a lot of plugins are. As far as peak limiters are concerned, Waves' L1 and/or L2 are extremely useful and compete well with most outboard limiters. The RCL and similar compressor plugins offer tremendous versatility, while most plugin EQ can be very microscopic and surgical, which has it's uses. I used to think that all outboard reverbs would smoke any plugins any day of the week . . . but then I became acclimated with something called accoustic mirror, and I changed my mind on that one. There's also a program called drumagog that only exists as a plugin, but it does things that probably no outboard gadget could ever do. Of course, there's probably a lot more plugins that are useless and sound like complete ass, too. Yea, I'd probably say outboard gear whenever possible and/ or practical and give that one a slight edge. It just sounds better, and when all is said and done, that's kind of what matters most.
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#24
05-29-2003
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plug-ins suck. Most of them sound like shit. (although i've had some success with altiverb) extra rounding errors. stack them up and you have garbage. Most high end racks are dual engine, some quadruple. plenty bang for the buck. I still use analog plate, spring and chamber reverbs. No plug or rack can compete with that. most people forget to delay tracks to compensate for latency induced by plugs, latency is even introduced by rack gear. can anyone say delay line? You should love your delay line, even to the point of dry humping it. why do my mixes suck? cause my shit is out of phase running through chains of plugs. latency kids. god bless! (the nubmeister)
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#25
05-29-2003
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Ok so you want to drop the reverb from your mix to free up cpu power for something else. So what do you do? Route the signal out of your computer, through the reverb, and then re-record it back into the mix with reverb? And if it's too much or too little, just do it again?
Doesn't sound very convinient. I mean you could just run a reverb plugin on the one track, bounce the track and load it back in with the reverb saved. Granted it might not be as good quality as rack reverb, but it's sure as hell faster and easier. What do you normally do to add reverb from an effects box?
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