How do I get that Professional sound on my vocals? which effects settings to use?

[Logik_01]

Hey guys

i just want my vocals to sound kinda professional...i have a sm58 and a mic pre (i know im not gonna get pure pro vocals)... but i wanna know which basic effects to use to make it sound "cleaner" can anyone tell me a list of which basic effects i should use on my vocals? any tips or tricks?

thank you.

[Logik_01]

by the way im doing raps vocals...

thank you again

[F_cksia]

rappers do a lot of overdubs usually..
try some nice compressing, and cutting some of the muddy sounding frequencies.

by the way.. posting this in the cep-forum is not such a great idea.. try the recording techniques forum instead.

[Logik_01]

Originally posted by F_cksia
rappers do a lot of overdubs usually..
try some nice compressing, and cutting some of the muddy sounding frequencies.

by the way.. posting this in the cep-forum is not such a great idea.. try the recording techniques forum instead.

which compressing setting would you suggest..thanks

[Logik_01]

im not aming for anything loud and in your ear type of thing, i do more storytelling type tracks where i want my vocals to have a clean sound with some effects...

thanks

[Change of POETS]

Recording Tips for Hip-Hop in Cool Edit Pro 2.0:

1st. Record your verse on one track, when you're happy with it go to step 2.

2nd. Record your verse again, the same as your first track. This is known as an overdub.

3rd. Record an add-lib track. Putting emphasis on certain bars or words, to give it added flair.

You can have more than 3 tracks if you wish, but 3 should be your minimum, otherwise your audio's will not sound professional at all.

Mixing:

Go to: View>Show Mixer Window

make sure all the silver boxes (in default color) are checked so the eq and pan buttons etc... are showing.

Boost your vocal pressence by increasing the dynamic volumes.

Example:

1st track:
Hi - 12.4
Mid - 6.2
Low - 3.1

2nd track:
Hi - 10.3
Mid - 5.2
Low - 2.1

3rd track:
Hi - 9.4
Mid - 3.2
low - 1.0

These settings may not work for you, but play around with them until your voice sounds full.

Remember! - Your 1st track should be prominant, set at 1.5 - 2.0 db louder than your 2nd track. An overdub should always be lower than the 1st track. Your 3rd track (add-libs) should be blended behind that, approx 3.0-6.0 db lower than your 1st track. Your 3rd track should be audible, but not intrusive on tracks 1 or 2.

Mix your vocals so they blend with the beat, but so that they stand out over it. Do not let the beat overpower you!!!! Your lyrics are important, and you want people to hear them right? Make sure they stand out.

Cleaning and Effects:

In the Edit View for each vocal track....

1st. Expand the waveform so it's large enough to see fluxuations in it. usually 3 up, and 3 wide for my personal pref. Then, Right-Click - Select entire wave. Run a noize reduction with your previously saved profile (if you havent done this do so by recording a small 2-5 second track, without making any noise. Just let the mic pic up background noise. Highlight the track in edit view, and go to Noise Reduction, click the "Get profile from selection" button. Then save the profile as "Vocal Noise reduction" for later use on all your vocal tracks.) After you run your Noise Reduction on the wave... listen to the track meticulously... silence any breaths that are noticeable, by highlighting them, then Right-Click - Silence. once you've silenced all breaths, look for click's and pops. To eliminate those, highlight the single click, go to Noise Reduction - Click/Pop Filter. Then click the Auto find threshold button, and then click Fill Single Click. This process takes time, so if you have a slow PC, be ready to sit for a minute or two. Be careful, on some of the larger Pops or clicks, you'll get a metalic sound... if this happens, undo the filter, and live with it. DO THIS PROCESS ON EACH VOCAL TRACK!!!!

Effects:

You'll want effects on each track. Every major artist uses them, despite what you think. To get that professional sound, you need them. But don't overdo them, you don't want to sound like a robot either.
On tracks 1 & 2, put a Tight and Close reverb on your vocal selection. this will give you a fuller sound, and better pressence. On the 3rd track, play around with different effects, to get a different reverb from tracks 1 & 2, but make sure it blends well with them. Play around a bit, and see what you like. Remember, you can put more than one effect on your track, to get thousands of different outcomes.

Have fun, and happy recording!!!!

-Change

[Logik_01]

Thanks so much change

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by Logik_01
Thanks so much change

It's cool.

Lemme know if you need anything else.

[Logik_01]

Originally posted by Change of POETS
It's cool.

Lemme know if you need anything else.

i find that if i use 3 vocal tracks theres to much going on that it takes away from my lyrics and im doing storytelling so i want listeners to hear my words clearly...any suggestions? thank you

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by Logik_01
i find that if i use 3 vocal tracks theres to much going on that it takes away from my lyrics and im doing storytelling so i want listeners to hear my words clearly...any suggestions? thank you

Here dogg... I do storytellin hip-hop as well, listen to the song titled "5-Mile Queen"

It's got 3 vocal tracks on it... but you can't tell.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/changemusic.htm

You just need to be on point with your lyrics, and you add-libs so they blend well.

Listen to that joint, and tell me if you think the 3 vocal tracks pull away from the focus of the lyrics...

[Logik_01]

Originally posted by Change of POETS
Here dogg... I do storytellin hip-hop as well, listen to the song titled "5-Mile Queen"

It's got 3 vocal tracks on it... but you can't tell.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/changemusic.htm

You just need to be on point with your lyrics, and you add-libs so they blend well.

Listen to that joint, and tell me if you think the 3 vocal tracks pull away from the focus of the lyrics...

nice track b, im feeling that...if u dont mind can u tell me the volumes of the tracks and the eq volumes you used. also, which effects did you use like reverb etc etc? thats exactley the type of sound im trying to achieve...

thanks a lot.

by the way, "family letter" beautiful track b

[Logik_01]

by eq volumes i mean the Hi Mid and the Low volumes, and also the actual track volume

thanks

[Change of POETS]

The volumes in the tutorial are what I use myself... that's why I put them in there.

But they may not work for you, so play around with them, until you get the depth of your voice the way you want it.

Track volume depends. The beat alone, I try to keep around -3 db, and with vocals added, I like to keep the track at -1 db max... sometimes I get a little clipping... You'll have to record a few tracks, and burn some songs on CD-R. Listen to them in different places, home stereos, car stereos etc... and make adjustment accordingly. It takes a while, but eventually you'll figure out what works best for you.

As far as reverbs are concerned, it mostly depends on how I'm spitting. If I'm spitting fast on a beat, I want a "Tight and Close" reverb, with minimal echoe, but just to add depth. That's what I did with "Family Letter". But for Songs where I'm spittin slower, like 5-Mile queen, I add a Delay effect, with mininmal echoe... I don't like a robotic sound. I like to make my voice sound fuller, so i add some light echoe, but giving it more depth... you want the reverb to blend smoothly with the track. As you play around, you'll find things you like and things you dislike the same. BTW, I don't use any of the presets... I refer to them for people in the tutorial but, I always tweek them to sound how I want... the presets are just starting points.

Thanks for peeping my tracks. Glad you liked them. My album is for sale if you're interested. www.cafepress.com/changehiphop

-Brian

[flat-9]

Originally posted by Change of POETS
Recording Tips for Hip-Hop in Cool Edit Pro 2.0:

1st. Record your verse on one track........... . Remember, you can put more than one effect on your track, to get thousands of different outcomes.

Have fun, and happy recording!!!!

-Change

I didn't want to qoute all your words.............. EXCELLENT POST!

peace,
flat-9

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by flat-9
I didn't want to qoute all your words.............. EXCELLENT POST!

peace,
flat-9

Thanks. I hope it works well for you.

[Logik_01]

thanks a lot change

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by Logik_01
thanks a lot change

No problem, glad I could help a fellow emcee.

[groucho]

Uh, Logik... I'm not entirely sure if "Change of POETS" is pulling yer leg or what, but that was a whole bunch of really BAD advice. Boosting the high on the 3-band eq by 10!!!??? Running noise reduction on every track!!!???? This is NOT the road to a good-sounding recording.

I just thought I'd let you know: you need to do some reading and learning - the archives of this place and www.studiocovers.com are good places to start. Basically, there aren't settings that you just apply to a track to make it sound good. Every situation is different and you gotta actually learn what the effects processors DO and WHY - just taking someone else's settings and applying them to your tracks is never gonna work. That's just the way it is, unfortunately.

"Change" did mention that presets were just starting points, but the settings he posted aren't even good starting points - and the whole noise reduction thing is just nuts (which makes me think he might have been fucking with you).

Anyway, a little warning for ya.

Chris

[dobro]

I've been waiting for it...

Also, I leave my breath noise in my tracks. I leave all sorts of things in - string flubs and squeaks, mouth noises, rattling jewelry - kinda like real life, ya know? Dunno, maybe rap has a tradition of editing all that stuff out the way they airbrush out a model's moles and stuff before they take her picture. Seems to me that audible breath makes the track more interesting vocally. And rap's all about voice, right?

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by groucho
Uh, Logik... I'm not entirely sure if "Change of POETS" is pulling yer leg or what, but that was a whole bunch of really BAD advice. Boosting the high on the 3-band eq by 10!!!??? Running noise reduction on every track!!!???? This is NOT the road to a good-sounding recording.

Do you do Hip-Hop? Are you speaking from experience as a Hip-Hop artist/engineer?

If you don't run the noise reduction, you get that standard electronic buz from your Mic pre in your audio, and it makes it sound like trash. I've been working in professional studios for 4 years now, and I've had my own private home studio for only 2 years. If you think my advice sucks... go listen to the clarity of my music. Click on my website button at the bottom of my post. Listen to 5-Mile Queen, or Family Letter, both were recorded in my home studio, with my "method" which you've called a "joke".

Like I said, those setting work for ME, but everyone will need to use their own volumes to get their voice sounding as full as needed.

I just thought I'd let you know: you need to do some reading and learning - the archives of this place and www.studiocovers.com are good places to start. Basically, there aren't settings that you just apply to a track to make it sound good. Every situation is different and you gotta actually learn what the effects processors DO and WHY - just taking someone else's settings and applying them to your tracks is never gonna work. That's just the way it is, unfortunately.

This is true, and I believe I said the same thing.

"Change" did mention that presets were just starting points, but the settings he posted aren't even good starting points - and the whole noise reduction thing is just nuts (which makes me think he might have been fucking with you).

Anyway, a little warning for ya.

Chris

Basically, you live up to your screen name. Constructive criticism is one thing, but to be flat-out rude is another.

-Brian

[groucho]

(sigh) Ah well, I tried...

Change: Ill assume you're well-intentioned here and not pulling the leg of the newbies. My short answer is that you shouldn't be getting buzzing from your pre. Fix it at the source and you don't need noise reduction. You shouldn't be boosting 10 db of anything when eq-ing or you're dealing with a turd of a recording.

No, I don't record hip-hop (alhough I listen to quite a bit of it). Yes, I'm just a home recordist like everyone else here. No, I don't know everything - I'm learning every day. Yes, I listened to your stuff. I really dug some of your tunes - you've got plenty of talent. But your recording skills are way behind your skills on the mic. It sounds like the vox were done in a tin can.

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest here because this is pretty basic "recording 101" stuff that can easily be verified by any of the pros on this board (I'm *not* one of them). Or by doing a little reading and experimenting. So don't take my word for it, by all means.

Cheers,
Chris

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by groucho
(sigh) Ah well, I tried...

Change: Ill assume you're well-intentioned here and not pulling the leg of the newbies. My short answer is that you shouldn't be getting buzzing from your pre. Fix it at the source and you don't need noise reduction. You shouldn't be boosting 10 db of anything when eq-ing or you're dealing with a turd of a recording.

As far s I know, EVERY soundcard has some electronic interferance on it, which needs to be eliminated. I choose to do so by Noise Reduction. It works best for me. Maybe if I had a $400.00 soundcard i wouldn't get that static I'm referring to, but alas, I don't have one. This mini-tutorial was wrote for the begining home hip-hop recorder. The kind of people who are using PC mic's and have no real studio equipment. That is why the suggestion of boosting the db is in there. With my studio Mic, I boost around 2-3 db on the high end, and actually cut my low end out some.

No, I don't record hip-hop (alhough I listen to quite a bit of it). Yes, I'm just a home recordist like everyone else here. No, I don't know everything - I'm learning every day. Yes, I listened to your stuff. I really dug some of your tunes - you've got plenty of talent. But your recording skills are way behind your skills on the mic. It sounds like the vox were done in a tin can.

I almost resent that. Someone who doesn't have experience in recording thisstyle of music, giving advice about it? I listen to alternative music, but I'd never assume I know the way to go about recording in that genre, because I have no experience there. You're the first person to ever say my vocal recordings sound bad. I'm suprised, and shocked. Not offended, just shocked. If you know of some way to make them sound better, please do tell. I guess the thousands of others who've told me otherwise don't have that acute ear you obtain

I don't really want to get into a pissing contest here because this is pretty basic "recording 101" stuff that can easily be verified by any of the pros on this board (I'm *not* one of them). Or by doing a little reading and experimenting. So don't take my word for it, by all means.

Cheers,
Chris

No need to get into a pissing contest at all bro. But seriously, any "pro" who tells you they aren't adjusting the vocal eq's of High Mid and Low, is flat-out lying to you. I've been recording for 5 years now, and have worked with hundreds of artists... all of which, had their vocals eq'd in their sessions.

BTW, I went to the website you posted. There's some good info there but, from a web-design perspective, navigation is sub-par. Are there any specific articles that you suggest we (I) read to improve the vocal recordings? Like you, I'm just an at-home recorder.

-Brian

[groucho]

Originally posted by Change of POETS
[B]As far s I know, EVERY soundcard has some electronic interferance on it, which needs to be eliminated. I choose to do so by Noise Reduction. It works best for me. Maybe if I had a $400.00 soundcard i wouldn't get that static I'm referring to, but alas, I don't have one. This mini-tutorial was wrote for the begining home hip-hop recorder. The kind of people who are using PC mic's and have no real studio equipment. That is why the suggestion of boosting the db is in there. With my studio Mic, I boost around 2-3 db on the high end, and actually cut my low end out some.

Hey Brian:

Okay, this is becoming a little clearer now. I'm assuming you have a fairly low-grade soundcard, and if that's the case: yeah, you're gonna get noise on there. No, every soundcard will not require you to use noise reduction. If you use the card that came with your computer, yeah, probably...

If you actually recorded the stuff on your site with a PC mic and a crappy soundcard, you're doing pretty damn well. But when giving advice out, you probably shouldn't assume everyone else is using such primitive equipment. For a few hundred bucks you can get a decent soundcard and a decent condensor mic - it's been my experience that, generally, most people on this board have at least that much in the way of gear.

I almost resent that. Someone who doesn't have experience in recording thisstyle of music, giving advice about it? I listen to alternative music, but I'd never assume I know the way to go about recording in that genre, because I have no experience there. You're the first person to ever say my vocal recordings sound bad. I'm suprised, and shocked. Not offended, just shocked. If you know of some way to make them sound better, please do tell. I guess the thousands of others who've told me otherwise don't have that acute ear you obtain

Ah, man... I don't have ears of gold. But I mean, you just told me the equipment you're using and, well... it sounds like a recording done with bad equipment. However, I should repeat that, given the gear you're apparantly using, your stuff sounds way better than it has a right to. I bet once you get out of the "PC mic/soundcard" category you're gonna sound pretty good.

Advise on making it sound better? Get a decent soundcard. Get a decent condensor mic. Learn to use compression and parametric EQ. Learn how to use reverb and delay. A lot of hip-hop vox are doubled and heavily compressed and often pretty dry and up-front. Depends on what you're going for though.

As far as "the right to comment on music I don't record". That's just goofy. Hip-hop doesn't exist in its own universe where the guidelines for capturing a decent signal don't apply. And I *am* a fan of the music. I just record other types of stuff.

No need to get into a pissing contest at all bro. But seriously, any "pro" who tells you they aren't adjusting the vocal eq's of High Mid and Low, is flat-out lying to you. I've been recording for 5 years now, and have worked with hundreds of artists... all of which, had their vocals eq'd in their sessions.

Your terminology suggests that you don't know very much about EQ (I'd especially recommend the articles on that subject over at studiocovers.com. Some great stuff there). You're obviously new at this, as many of us are. That's no crime (and I'm no expert either).We're all trying to learn. I'm just suggesting you might wanna take a break from passing out advice and do a little more reading and learning.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but your advice to a new guy wasn't good advice. It is NOT standard practice to run noise reduction on every track and it is NOT standard practive to EQ using a 3-band graphic EQ with which you boost the "high" band by 10 db. It just ain't the way it's done. It may be the way it's done when you're recording with a crappy soundcard and a PC mic but handing out advice like that is like saying "here's how to walk if you have no legs." Not real useful.

You've obviously got some talent, and I'd be willing to bet in a few years you'll look back on this conversation and think "ugh, I wish I knew *then* what I know now."

Cheers,
Chris

[Change of POETS]

Originally posted by groucho
Hey Brian:

Okay, this is becoming a little clearer now. I'm assuming you have a fairly low-grade soundcard, and if that's the case: yeah, you're gonna get noise on there. No, every soundcard will not require you to use noise reduction. If you use the card that came with your computer, yeah, probably...

If you actually recorded the stuff on your site with a PC mic and a crappy soundcard, you're doing pretty damn well. But when giving advice out, you probably shouldn't assume everyone else is using such primitive equipment. For a few hundred bucks you can get a decent soundcard and a decent condensor mic - it's been my experience that, generally, most people on this board have at least that much in the way of gear.

Actually... Family Letter (the recording on that site) was done on a crappy PC mic. 5-Mile Queen was done in a Professional Studio in Las Vegas, NV.

In the last 4 months, I've put together a nice home studio, and the last thingon my list is to buy a decent soundcard. I'm currently using a $50.00 Soundcard I picked up at a local PC store. I do however have a new condensor mic, and I'm in the process of utilizing a closet as a recording booth. It will ensure much more solid recordings.

However, I'd need to know which songs you thought sounded unprofessional... somehow I can bet they're the songs I recorded at home before I started building my studio. I've yet to use my new mic... I'm itching to do so.

Ah, man... I don't have ears of gold. But I mean, you just told me the equipment you're using and, well... it sounds like a recording done with bad equipment. However, I should repeat that, given the gear you're apparantly using, your stuff sounds way better than it has a right to. I bet once you get out of the "PC mic/soundcard" category you're gonna sound pretty good.

My studio recordings sound great actually.. unfortunately, soundclick lowers the bitrates on everything and they don't sound nearly as good as they truly are.

Advise on making it sound better? Get a decent soundcard. Get a decent condensor mic. Learn to use compression and parametric EQ. Learn how to use reverb and delay. A lot of hip-hop vox are doubled and heavily compressed and often pretty dry and up-front. Depends on what you're going for though.

I've got to be honest here. I'm a newbie when it comes to the Parametric EQ, I could use info on that for sure. But everything I do uses reverb and delay. I actually double and tripple effects sometimes, to achieve the exact reverb I'm looking for.

As far as "the right to comment on music I don't record". That's just goofy. Hip-hop doesn't exist in its own universe where the guidelines for capturing a decent signal don't apply. And I *am* a fan of the music. I just record other types of stuff.

I agree, and disagree. It's one thing to understand the basics of equipment and recording, it's another to impose on a genre you don't work with on a daily basis.

Your terminology suggests that you don't know very much about EQ (I'd especially recommend the articles on that subject over at studiocovers.com. Some great stuff there). You're obviously new at this, as many of us are. That's no crime (and I'm no expert either).We're all trying to learn. I'm just suggesting you might wanna take a break from passing out advice and do a little more reading and learning.

There's always more to learn, and I'll never be content with what I know. I'm always seeking more information, as I think we all are. But, why are you bagging on me for terminology? I'm from the ghetto man...lol.. I'm not always using the correct terminology, I know that... but it doesn't mean I don't know my way around the engineering booth.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, but your advice to a new guy wasn't good advice. It is NOT standard practice to run noise reduction on every track and it is NOT standard practive to EQ using a 3-band graphic EQ with which you boost the "high" band by 10 db. It just ain't the way it's done. It may be the way it's done when you're recording with a crappy soundcard and a PC mic but handing out advice like that is like saying "here's how to walk if you have no legs." Not real useful.

I can understand where you're coming from. But clearly "logik" is a beginer in this, as I was when I wrote that mini-tutorial. He says it's helped him, and that was my intent. To help him at his current stage in recording... not attempt to get him to use those quidelines as the "Gospel of Hip-Hop recording"...lol... He may have a good mic and soundcard, but somehow, I figured that tutorial was right up his alley.

You've obviously got some talent, and I'd be willing to bet in a few years you'll look back on this conversation and think "ugh, I wish I knew *then* what I know now."

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks. I look back daily bro, and always wish I knew then, what I know now...lol.

[groucho]

Originally posted by Change of POETS
Actually... Family Letter (the recording on that site) was done on a crappy PC mic. 5-Mile Queen was done in a Professional Studio in Las Vegas, NV.

In the last 4 months, I've put together a nice home studio, and the last thingon my list is to buy a decent soundcard. I'm currently using a $50.00 Soundcard I picked up at a local PC store. I do however have a new condensor mic, and I'm in the process of utilizing a closet as a recording booth. It will ensure much more solid recordings.

However, I'd need to know which songs you thought sounded unprofessional... somehow I can bet they're the songs I recorded at home before I started building my studio. I've yet to use my new mic... I'm itching to do so.
My studio recordings sound great actually.. unfortunately, soundclick lowers the bitrates on everything and they don't sound nearly as good as they truly are.

I'm getting a little unclear as to which songs you recorded and which were done by someone else in a studio. I finally got 5-mile queen to stream and it sounds a great deal better than the obviously home-recorded stuff. I don't think using that song as an example of your "turorial"'s techniques is really appropriate since it's obvious those techniques were not used on that song. The home-brewed stuff sounds much less professional - but it seems you're aware of that, so let's not beat this one into the ground.

I've got to be honest here. I'm a newbie when it comes to the Parametric EQ, I could use info on that for sure.

Again, the site I posted before is a great starting place for all kinds of EQ info. George Massenburg's forum is also a hellofa good spot (being as he invented the thing):
http://www.musicgearnetwork.com/cgi-...3;DaysPrune=30

I agree, and disagree. It's one thing to understand the basics of equipment and recording, it's another to impose on a genre you don't work with on a daily basis.

The basics of recording are pretty consistant from genre to genre. Different genres have different production styles associated with them, obviously (and those change from era to era even within the same genre - remember when every single rap recording out there was trying to cop Dre's style?). But a badly-recorded vocal is a badly-recorded vocal - regardless of genre.

But, why are you bagging on me for terminology? I'm from the ghetto man...lol.. I'm not always using the correct terminology, I know that... but it doesn't mean I don't know my way around the engineering booth.

Hey, I don't give a shit where you're from. Or where I'm from. We're all *here* - talking music and recording. It's the internet. We're all just words on a screen. When that's the case, words become important. I wasn't bagging on you. I just said that it was obvious from the words you were using that your grasp of EQ didn't extend much beyond the 3-band graphic track EQ in Cool Edit's multitrack view. I'm not trying to shame you or anything, fer chrissakes.

I can understand where you're coming from. But clearly "logik" is a beginer in this, as I was when I wrote that mini-tutorial. He says it's helped him, and that was my intent. To help him at his current stage in recording... not attempt to get him to use those quidelines as the "Gospel of Hip-Hop recording"...lol... He may have a good mic and soundcard, but somehow, I figured that tutorial was right up his alley.

I do understand that you meant well - and I think it's cool that we all try to share what we know. And likewise, if we share something that's incorrect or of questionable value, one of us should speak up and offer a correction. We keep an eye on each other a little bit and misinformation doesn't get tossed around to newbies who don't know the difference yet.

Thanks. I look back daily bro, and always wish I knew then, what I know now...lol. [/B]

Amen to that. Over and out.

Chris