Need some direction

[vicevursa]

Hey, I feel rather silly, but here goes...

Ok, I'm using Sonar 2.1, WinXP, SBLive! with Live Drive 1, and a Behringer MX802a mixer. I have done some research and the more research I do, the less I seem to comprehend. Here's my problem. I am trying to work out some kind of consistency in my recordings. That's what everybody wants, right?

My signal path is as follows:
Hardware synth-->mixer-->line in SB Live-->Sonar. Simple, right? The meters in Sonar show good levels, I push the signal, but it doesn't clip. But no matter what I do, I can't seem to get decent waveforms. Everything is weak graphically and audibly. This before any effects or processing. I went to cakewalk's support page and came across the windows mixer. I have started messing with that, but things have seemingly only gotten worse. I find myself constantly manipulating the faders in windows mixer while recording and playback. This doesn't seem right to me. Somebody help me please! I will provide more detail of my setup if needed...
Do I have something not setup right in Sonar?

Vice

[moskus]

You are "messing" with the recording section of the Windows Mixer?

Windows Mixer: Options -> Preferenses -> Select Recording -> OK

[vicevursa]

Yeah, I'm messing with both. As it stands right now. I have the Playback master and the Record master set all the way up. I have been adjusting the recording line-in fader...

Unlike the picture on cakewalk's site I don't have the "What you hear" fader. I think I remember seeing that when I had WinME.


Vice

[Porter]

vice,

I think you get the 'What you hear' when you have the Creative Drivers loaded onto you system. If you are using XP I know if you use the standard XP driver it doesn't give you the option to record 'what u hear'. If you install the creative driver it will give you that option.

Porter

[moskus]

Originally posted by Porter
If you install the creative driver it will give you that option.

But don't do it!

[vicevursa]

I see. I thought I read somewhere to leave Creative's drivers alone, so I didn't bother with them. Is that the fader I need to help correct my levels?


Vice

[vicevursa]

Originally posted by moskus
But don't do it!

That's what I thought. So, now, I am back to where I started...


Vice

[Porter]

The What U hear fader is literally that. It can be confusing sometimes, especially if you monitor with the Sound Blaster... because, you guessed it, if you monitor it, you also record it.

I was just saying that that is how you get the 'What U Hear' 'fader' to appear.

To get the 'decent waveform' you are looking at you will probably need to use serious compression.

Porter

[vicevursa]

Yes, I am monitoring with the SB Live. I basically record a track at a time, so it is pretty basic. Now, compression is something I try not to use too much. In the past I have a couple of songs that came out pretty good. But, lately I can seem to get things right. Needless to say it is rather frustrating.


Vice

[vicevursa]

I have my QS6.1 going into channels 1 and 2. My DM5 drum machine is in channels 3 thru 6. I figure since I am monitoring through the SB Live! I have my mixer's levels set good. All I want to do is translate that into Sonar. I would be happy!
This problem, incidentally, is also affecting how I hear and record my softsynths... Help!!!


Vice

[mixsit]

Originally posted by vicevursa
...<snip>...
..The meters in Sonar show good levels, I push the signal, but it doesn't clip. But no matter what I do, I can't seem to get decent waveforms. Everything is weak graphically and audibly...
Vice

Excuse me if I go too basic here.
The Sonar record meter and the resulting recored signal should relate. I'm wondering what kind of level were you getting on the meters. How about the meter's scale setting? If it's set for a wide
range like 0-40, 'near the top' would be like what you are describing.
Wayne

[vicevursa]

NO, please go basic if needed. I'm trying to garner some understanding! When I record, I watch the track meter and the signal doesn't clip. I'm thinking I am doing something right. While I'm recording I am monitoring and everything sounds great. When I play what I've recorded the sound is low and sometimes (more often than not) the playback meter clips. So I turn the volume down a notch and re-record. Obviously, my track volume is lower. Now, the playback meter is no longer clipping, but the volume is even lower. I am of the belief this has something to do with the way Windows Mixer and Sonar interact. What I can't figure out is how. I know the realtionshop is simple, but I find myself no longer using the faders in Sonar at all, unless I am adding volume to the track.
I hope this information helps you guys help me...

Vice

[vicevursa]

Originally posted by mixsit
...If it's set for a wide range like 0-40, 'near the top' would be like what you are describing.

I will change the meters to a more narrow range and see if that helps. Although, I have been using the same range since I have been recording with Sonar. But, I can see where you are going with that, mixsit.

Thanks,


Vice

[mixsit]

Another possible curve to consider...
'IF' the record meter, playback meter, and V-main meters are set to the same range, and the track fader and V-main are set to 'zero', and you're not adding any gain (in a plugin), all should line up (I believe) as to what 'zero' db is. (..with a single track playing)
If you add gain in a plugin (at the track level) and/or at the V-main level, then your 'Pre/Post' meter settings will also make a difference.
Wayne

[James Argo]

Vice...
What's your driver mode in SONAR ?

Options --> Audio --> Advanced tab.

WDM or MME ?

[mixsit]

Hi. Me again.
I just had another flashback..and that's 'Offest Mode'. I've been goofed up royally more that once by having accidentally made changes with that on, then wondering why my settings didn't work right.

[moskus]

Yeah, "Offset Mode" can really make you wonder 'bout what's going on...

I deleted a mix when I was starting with Sonar, because I didn't figure out that Offset Mode was on...


Well, lesson learned!

[James Argo]

Originally posted by moskus
Yeah, "Offset Mode" can really make you wonder 'bout what's going on...

I deleted a mix when I was starting with Sonar, because I didn't figure out that Offset Mode was on...


Well, lesson learned!

Yeah... I figured it out too. Offset Mode was there to delete your mix...























Wasn't it ?

[mixsit]

Originally posted by James Argo
Yeah... I figured it out too. Offset Mode was there to delete your mix...

Wasn't it ?

Huh?

[James Argo]

Oops...

[moskus]

Sorry, James... Not hysterical funny....

[vicevursa]

Originally posted by James Argo
Vice...
What's your driver mode in SONAR ?

Options --> Audio --> Advanced tab.

WDM or MME ?

WDM drivers are being used. The ones I am using are the ones installed by WinXP. I am also not in any offset mode as near as I can tell. I have changed the meters to a less broad range (doh!) That actually helps me see things more clearly (Thanks mixsit!).

'IF' the record meter, playback meter, and V-main meters are set to the same range, and the track fader and V-main are set to 'zero', and you're not adding any gain (in a plugin), all should line up (I believe) as to what 'zero' db is. (..with a single track playing)
If you add gain in a plugin (at the track level) and/or at the V-main level, then your 'Pre/Post' meter settings will also make a difference.
Wayne

I am of the same belief, so, I did that. That's why I am suspecting something with that Windows Mixer. I am going to run some tests and get back with you guys later on today... I really appreciate the help.


Vice

[vicevursa]

I took a snapshot of what I am trying to fix. I have Sonar set to lock the peaks. You will notice about 6dB difference in the tracks volume and the Mains. I don't have offset mode on. The signal path is as follows:

DM5 drums --> Mixer --> Line-in jack on SB Live! --> Sonar

This is what I can't figure out. Why is there such a difference? In Windows Mixer I have all the volumes set to max in an effort to have some baseline at which to start pulling faders down.




Thanks again,

Vice

[James Argo]

Vice, one of the reason why The Almighty dachay2tnr always said "Stay away from the console view" is because it somehow can confuse you

I mean, take a look at my pic attached...

When I solo the track, the track next to it still be shown playing (<----).

Differences between track's meter & VMain meter (<----)

etc...

All you have to do is to make same setting on three of <------ (Playback meters, Record meters, and Main Bus meters) to what I've pointed <---- (Peak, Pre fadder, -60dB). Make sure three of them were set to the same value. Otherwise, you'll get confused by what they showed. Just my two cents..

Hope it helps

Jaymz

[moskus]

Originally posted by James Argo
Vice, one of the reason why The Almighty dachay2tnr always said "Stay away from the console view" is because it somehow can confuse you

And you all know that the Console View ROCKS!!! YEAH BABY!!!