Please help me upgrade some mics, vocals, kick, toms.

[umair]

Hello. I am happy to have found this forum after reading a ton of posts everyone on here everyone seems really cool and enjoys helping out new comers. I am going to end up posting two things. One in Mics and one in Computer Recording…. So bear with me in case you read both posts… it may seem a little repetitive.

OK. Here is my situation:
I have been tooling around with home recording for about two years but spend most of my time in my band. I started out with a Boss Br-8 about two years ago. And sold that and bought a C-port and some freeware software. Then I bought sonar off of a friend. Then I sold that on ebay and bought Nuendo which is by far the greatest purchase I have ever made (in my novice opinion).
I have gotten a lot more serious about the demo recording studio thing because people have liked all the equipment I put together and I have compiled enough stuff over the last year or so to start charging people to record demos. That’s kind of what I like about this. I can record my own band and also record others and make some money back. I am ready for a pretty significant upgrade (significant for me at least).
I am selling a few things now and I am ready for the next step up. I like to do things in steps rather than spending 5 grand all of the sudden.

This is what I have:
DMP3 Preamp
Alesis Nanoverb (not really used for recording, mostly rehearsal)
Behringer MX3282A mixer (used mostly for rehearsals but I also mic up drums through it… I know it needs to be upgraded eventually so please don’t yell at me for Behringer)).
Two ¼” patch bays (don’t use them much but I got them cheap)
Mics - nothing too great just yet:
- (2) SM57’s
- (1) SM-58 (mostly used for rehearsal rather than recording)
- AT3035
- MXL 660 - I know its cheap but I really like the sound out of it.
I just sold: the AKG Drum Pack which includes D-550, 2 D440’d, and 2 D660S’s.
That means I need new mics to make sure I can record drums.
I am also selling my C-port (did it’s job really well for it’s time), which I will talk about in the computer recording forum.

Oh yeah, I play and record mostly rock/punkish type of stuff.
My question(s) for the mic guys/gals:
What are your opinions on the following plan:

The first thing that it looks like I need is to replace my kick drum mic. I’m almost positive that I am going to go with the AKG D-112. I wanted to look at the RED5 RVD1 but I can’t find it anywhere. I thought that would be a good mic and it would keep cost down.

Next I need a to finish out my drum mics with two tom mics. I was thinking multi-purpose Studio Projects B1 mics? Maybe a pair of those?

This would pretty much allow me to mic up my drums so far? Please add any comments here.

Then, I need a pretty good vocal mic. Someone had suggested the C1 but also said it was not very versatile. Just Vocals for the most part. How bout the B3? Rode NT-1? I wanted to stay in the $200 range.

For the Bass cabinet I can just use the bass drum mic correct?

And for guitars I like the SM57 and AT3035.

Acoustics? MXL660?

Please let me know if I am totally missing something. We always use about 7 mics on the drums but the rest of the stuff we record 2 tracks at a time and that’s when I go from the DMP3 right to the recorder (no Behringer in the signal chain). That way only 5 drum mics in the whole mix go through the behringer.

And that’s all. I should have a decent setup. Now to upgrade my soundcard? Off to the computer recording forum.
if I've left anything out just post back asking. Thanks and I appreciate the help.

[chessrock]

You should have a pair of small diaphragm condensers.

MXL603 / Oktava mc012.

Both good options and well within your budget.


Use them for drum overheads and accoustic guitar. Use a couple of sm57's for toms. Less bleed. The rest is a tossup. All of your ideas seem pretty decent.

[Mr Funk]

Red5 mics are only available direct I believe? This is how they keep the price low! have a look at there website: http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html

£199 ($320) for all those specific drum mic's should see you right! They are meant to be pretty good, especially the RV4's and the kick drum mic. There LD condenser's have also recieved great reviews, and they do a package including one or two of those as well I think? I'm not sure what the shipping would be, but they do have a 14 day money back trial period.

I own a SP C1 and it seems reasonably fine on most sources, but vocals are it's stron point. Although, i have head it mentioned that it is a killer on snare too!?

Good luck.

BTW. Have a look at www.lineaudio.se as they have a decent 8 chan mic pre that could replace your Behringer?

[umair]

That Red5 Stuff looks pretty cool.
But now I have even more options. I am still confused. At least I think I have decided on getting the SP C1. Haven't read a bad thing about it so far. Although the B3 looks cool too but I don't think it is widely used for vocals.

[Mr Funk]

The B1 & B3 are more flat and neutral than the C1 & C3, very useful and usable for vocals, just not as flattering and 'expensive' sounding as the C series. They also require more gain than the C series which could be a strain on the Behringer pre's? Still I liked the B series as well as the C series mic's.

[umair]

Interesting... thanks for the info...
However, when I record vocals, I usually go through the DMP3 Pre-amp which I have to say is significantly better than Behringer's. I think the gain would be ok. But I should really get at least one fairly dedicated Vocal mic. After this upgrade I may try adding another preamp.. like the RNP. This is why ebay is so great, you can keep upgrading bit by bit and not spend insane amounts of money.

I emailed Red5 to see what kind of shipping costs they are going to charge to ship to the US.

[chessparov]

Since you want versatility try out the B3 multi-pattern and see (hear) how you like it for your vocals. Been said it's between the
B1 (neutral) and C series (more assertive) in tone.
Their listening CD seems to bear that out.

Chris

[Richard Monroe]

I like Oktava MC012 for overheads, D112 on kick, AKG C2000B on toms and SM57 on snare. C-1 good for vocals, but c2000B is also usable. It's like SP B-1, but with a little more color, pad and bass rolloff.-Richie

[Innovations]

in my opinion the C1 is very versatile.

Also most professionals that I know have a handfull of SM58s handy. The reason is that they are cheap, reliable, durable, versatile, and can be handled by folks without much on-mike experience. Give an amature a large diaphram condenser and they might destroy it. You can't predict what it is that you will be asked to record next or on short notice so you need to be prepared.

[darnold]

I was reading this through and a thought came to my head when i read the part where you do rock/punk type music.

The thing i thought about was this. that is a very broad topic in itself. There are many different styles of rock and punk especially on drums. For instance, Fat Wreck Chords type recordings has a totally different style then Hellcat Records but yet they are both considered punk. I believe this can go for all genres of music.

So, maybe we can get idea going around because it sure would help people to explain what type of equipment to get if you define the sound you want a little more by saying a certain band, a certain record label, etc.

You say punk drum style, but like i mentioned before, what style of punk recording? If you want the Fat Wreck Chords type drums i would discourage the AKG D-112 (infact i discourage it anyway, but thats just my opinion). I dont really have a lot of support for discouraging this mic except for this, the guy who does most of the recordings for Fat Wreck Chords (at least their most known stuff) hates the AKG D-112. He says he cant work with the sound enough and that "click" thing it has doesnt work for his stuff. But the reason why i bring this up is because while listening to his amazing drum sounds i believed that he used the D-112 because of that click sound that he gets. But i was wrong, i believe he normally uses a RE20 on most of his kicks but thats probably out of the question. But besides that, he is a big Senheisser fan.

Ive noticed that the click sound in the D-112 is just what it is, a click, which i think sounds very unatural for a kick drum, and the problem is its tough to get rid of. But when your using a kick mic that doesnt have that, with a properly tuned kick, the sound is more like a smack, with a little more punch to it.

Of course this has been my opinion. Ive only used the D-112 once so i dont have alot of experience with it. But what i do know is i can get the sound im looking for with my kick mic, and its much more versatile.

And if you are going for the more Hellcat records type, the D-112 definately is not your type (except on a few of their records). They are more of the lower mids punch.

Basically, dont just buy the D-112 because its considered the standard for rock music. Sure, ive heard some really really good kick drums done with the D-112 and alot of people around prefer it. And thats cool. But just because it works for them doesnt mean it will work for you. Try a couple and see what works best for you.

danny

[umair]

Thanks guys.
The reason I wrote down punkish rock is because we are pretty diverse. We have one or two slow accoustic ballad type stuff as well as really heavy stuff. We have kind of green day thing going on I guess. I invite you to visit my ghetto ass website but I don't want you guys to tear apart the recordings as they are not done well and you guys are pretty professional (I've hear samples that peolpe say need work but to me they rock). So I'm working on becoming a better recording engineer. I guess I should try to setup not solely based on what music I play becasue I seem to be getting people asking to record with me. Albeit for very little money but still, it's a start. Anyway, my website is www.what-exit.com and please don't be too brutal. It should give you a style of music that we have but also, keep in mind that we have ballads that have yet to be recorded. I didn't want to record anymore stuff on the C-port for now (not bashing the C-port) it was very good for me. I still like what I am hearing about Red5 for drum mics. I wonder what kind of sound that is best suited for. Its just hard to try some of these things and then return them. I also don't know if it is really worth it for me to buy the Delta 1010 or RME Multiface but I need to make that decision soon.