Anyone not in love with the 4033 for male vox?

[nwduffer]

Been using my AT 4033 for everything since I got it a year ago, but lately I'm not sure I'm in love with it for my vocals.

Anything else in the same budgetary range I might be happy with for a warm vocal cut? I keep hearing about the Studio Projects mics....should I check one out? I like the 4033 on my acoustic just fine, just wondering if I should look at something for a better vocal sound.

I'm upgrading from the Santa Cruz card I've had into an Audiophile 2496 (someone stop me if this isn't a good move) and am still using the same ART MP preamp. Would I be happier with vocals if I did something different in the pre instead of the mic?

I'm gonna spend $150 on the card, leaves me with no more than $250 for a new mic or pre, at this point.

Thanks,
Paul
http://www.buzzsawmusic.com

[chessrock]

What, specifically, is it that you aren't happy with? What kind of sound are you looking for, and what kind of vocal/music style are you trying to compliment?

If your vocals are sounding too nasal, then yea, I think a C1 might help out in that regard. If they're too sibilant or have too much high end, then I'd think a C1 would be just as bad or worse.

"Warm vocal cut" is a very general description. I think we'd all like that, to varying degrees, obviously. But in my humble opinion, warm is something I associate either with Tube condensers, or dynamic and/or ribbon mics. Your typical transformerless condenser will tend to be too sensitive and accurate in order to qualify as "warm," again in my humble opinion.

And in either case, I don't see a whole lot of options available in the $250 range. If you're willing to shell out just a little bit more, there should be plenty of inexpensive tube options; CAD M9, TB1, etc. And as far as a great, warm, smooth dynamic mic, I've always been a fan of the Shure SM7, and plenty will swear by the Senheisers. Ribbons definitely have a sound I would characterize as warm, but they might be a bit out of your price range for the time being.

[Track Rat]

Ches, I'd characterize an Octava MC-319 as a dark, somewhat warm LDC but I agree, "warm" is a much used and ill defined term that a lot of folks toss around.

[nwduffer]

You're right....warm is a generic term. I guess it just sounds a little harsh to me sometimes, and I wish I could smooth it out a bit. Again....harsh....smooth.....both generic terms.

I suppose I was looking for some overall 'many people prefer Mic A over Mic B, when Mic B seems a little harsh for vocals' type of feedback. I appreciate the suggestions above and will look into them.

Thanks again,

Paul
http://www.buzzsawmusic.com

[chessrock]

The AT does seem to have that reputation on certain types of voices.

What I think you'd be looking for is something with a little less of the high end action / peaks going on.


For $250 and under, my favorite option would be the CAD M177. They make some outstanding mics for the money. Was just listening to a vocal a friend of mine cut the other week with one (on my recommendation), and I couldn't believe how good it sounded on his voice. Up to that point, he had been using one of the older Rode NT1s, which sounded wayy too harsh -- much more so than your 4033. The CAD was just the ticket on his voice.

If you don't mind the ebay route, then try and get a hold of a Shure KSM32. Those are amazing, neutral mics, and you might get lucky and score one for the $250 range if you're an astute ebayer.

[ebeam]

Running the 4033 through a better pre could make a world of difference - it did for me. IMO with the 4033-->ART MP-->2496 chain, the ART is the weakest link.

I'm curious about those CAD mics as well. I picked the M179 as one of my favs from the listeningsessions.com shootouts, although I'm still working my way through them. Didn't seem to have the same brittle (here we go again) top end that a lot of the cheap condensers have.

[chessrock]

And a good portion of their mics are still build here in the US. Imagine that.

[DJL]

nwduffer, have you tried the Marshall MXL V67G with your voice yet? It's not an expensive mic... but, from reading what you've said here, it may be worth your time to test one out.

[kid klash]

Another mic option is the Studio Projects B1. It doesn't have a peaked high end, which might tame the "harshness" you're talking about. It's an amazingly smooth-sounding LDC, at an amazingly low $79 each. I've got a pair of them and have had excellent results with them. I see you're in Salem; don't know if there's a music store there that carries them, but right up I5 in Portland, Brownell Sound carries the Studio Projects line of mics; take your 4033 with you and do you own A-B comparison.

[chessparov]

Fletcher recently stated there's a possibility CAD may be dropped from
Mercenary, as the QC may be starting to go downhill.
I'm sure, however, that any THEY stock will probably be fine, and in the off
chance of a dud (as with any mike), they'd take care of you in view of their
superlative customer service.

In the $250 and under catagory, also consider the Beyer M88 (or TG model).
It's both "smooth" and "warm".
According to Bob Ohlsson, it sounds like an expensive Neumann on many
voices. Luckily, it works excellently on mine.

One of the best snatches on e-bay right now is the Beyer Soundstar MKII,
also called the M400. There's a brand new one for $110 (buy it now) and
a used one also being auctioned.
Would catagorize it as "smooth" and "clear", not as "warm" as the M88.
(I use both BTW)
Harvey uses it for many vocals at his studio, and seems to put it in the same
class as the Shure SM7.

The AT 4033 is known for sounding nasal on quite a few singers.
(including me!)
It also seems to sound better in conjuction with a reel to reel set-up
versus a digital format, per internet end-users and some direct conversations
with people who have used them.

Chris

[nwduffer]

Man, I totally appreciate the feedback....great to come back tonight and see some more options to consider.

Ebeam mentioned the ART being a weak link. Can I expect to get anything decent for under $200, or is it another one of those 'save your money' kind of situations?

Kid, you're right...not much going on in Salem for mics, I'll have to make the trip up.

Thanks again to everyone, I'm gonna see what might be exciting on ebay from the suggestiona above.

Paul

[SteveMcB]

There are several popular options for mic pre's under $200, and in combination with some of the mics, you could even get mic and pre for under $250! I haven't used many of these, so YMMV, but if you do a search on the model names on this board, you'll come up with heaps of info to help you. Your choice really, based on features....

Pre's:
- M-audio Audio Buddy - $80, 2 channels, basic, no frills, clean and clear
- M-audio DMP-3 - $179, 2 channels, more frills (VU meters), clean and clear
- Small Mackie or (gulp!) Behringer mixer - this gives you preamps as well as routing flexibility - the behringer mixers start at $59 or so. To get a mackie within your price range you're gonna have to go second hand/ebay and you might not be able to get a mic as well. I have a mackie (1402 VLZ) which I got second hand from an idiot, within your price range, which I use for pres. Behringers have a bad, bad rep with some here, but others use them and have had no problems. Both should give you decent clean preamps. Range from 1 mic pre to multiple channels of pres depending on what you spend!
- Studio Projects VTB-1 - One channel, solid state with option of tube blend. Clean without tube, coloured with. $129 at new price (some places may still have it for $179, the old price).

Add a B1 or a V67 to these, and alternate mic and preamp are sorted out.

Steve

[chessparov]

nw, yet another option would be to get a Meek compressor, that'll help
smooth out your 4033. A revamp of the original Meek line is in the works,
including beefing up the mic pre on the "channel" style units.
That type of compressor can sound very cool on dynamic mikes too.

Chris

[SteveMcB]

Doh! Forgot the meek! Good call chessparov - I should have included the MC3/MQ3 in the list.

Steve