The value of this forum!!? I love you guys:P

[VesuviusJay]

Well here it is boys and girls. I am finally, after 2 years of exhausting self teaching, starting to understand the beautiful art that is recording and mixing. Many a night I was up till the break of dawn trying to get the song to sound right, having to put in a 9 hour day at work the next day. Only to come home and work until I passed out in front of the monitor. Then as many of you have experienced, I wake up the next morning and listen to the mix, and of course, it sounds like shit. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't my own music that I used to practice on. As many of you can relate to, it is the most discouraging when it just doesnt sound like you invision it. Then comes the obsession to prove to yourself that you can make it sound right.

Last year I almost enrolled in the Recording Institute of Technology in Hollywood (MI). And paid 10 grand for 1 semester of learning. I auditioned and they actually accepted me. However, now I am not so sure I need to spend that money. Thanks to good freinds (who patiently listened to the same song over and over), and this forum.

I just wanted to say thanks, and for those of you interested, or who love the real metal genre's. I offer you this mix down for you to critique to help me ensure a perfect mix to send for mastering. I never could have come this far without you folks on this board.

Again, thanks, and the song is called captivity. I wrote this song for my little brother and best friend, Drew, who's 10 year captivity is finally entering its last lap.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/vesuvius/singles


CAPTIVITY

Confined, encaged, entwined, enslaved,
brothers ensnared, bound in chains.
Broken spirits of tortured souls,
another mind lost now insane.

Herded like cattle to claim the day's slop,
even the meat here is fake.
Arround every corner, a fat lazy cop,
looking for something to take.

Captivity, no man set free,
this is inhumanity.
Empty shell, in concrete shell,
Stripped of all dignity.
Severed from society,
Entombed alive, no man should be.
Once inside, stripped of all pride,
no man should be, Captivity

Life evolves, behind the wall,
transforming man into beast.
Ostracized, institutionalized,
the most to expect is the least.

Daycounts rise as calandars fall,
time is reduced by the day.
Another poor soul gets stuck here for life,
another man crumbles away.

Chorus

What gives you the right to enslave me?
Did God just step down from his thrown?
Judge not, bitch, less be judged thyself,
For the spirit of man you can't own.

And how about the ones on the outside,
who miss the lost souls that went in.
Do they deserve a brother lost?
Never to be seen again?

A hole exists within me,
empty for sometime.
When they took my brother,
They sentenced him a dime.

4 calandars down and 4 to go,
before we meet again.
I was there when he went in,
and YOU BASTARDS I'LL BE THERE IN THE END

~VesuviusJay \m/

[Slackmaster2K]

Well, you've done a pretty good job here. Lots of emotion in your performance.

There are lots of mix and tracking problems though. What are you recording with and monitoring on?

The guitars are pretty thin and sound really direct to me. The doubling helps but not quite enough. The bass is very very hard to hear, as is the kick. The hat is too far up and too "programmed". The vocals are pretty good but aren't blending with the rest of the tracks very well at times. The solo guitar could have a lot more muscle to it.

At times the guitar performance wanders...especially during the fast muted sections.

All in all you've got the makings of a very good start here!

Slackmaster 2000

[Slackmaster2K]

I would also consider redoing the solo...here and there it's right on, but it falls apart in many places. Maybe compose something that can be played consistantly?

Slackmaster 2000

[Smokepole]

I'm to scared to comment

[VesuviusJay]

Originally posted by Slackmaster2K
Well, you've done a pretty good job here. Lots of emotion in your performance.

There are lots of mix and tracking problems though. What are you recording with and monitoring on?

The guitars are pretty thin and sound really direct to me. The doubling helps but not quite enough. The bass is very very hard to hear, as is the kick. The hat is too far up and too "programmed". The vocals are pretty good but aren't blending with the rest of the tracks very well at times. The solo guitar could have a lot more muscle to it.

Well here's my setup, and maybe you can help me fine tune this thing. I know there are a few performance issues, but on this one I am working on the miking techniques mainly. Just for a heads up, the "thin" guitar sound has been my worst nightmare. Actually, the guitar on this cut is way way fatter than the previous version.

I am recording with my Jackson Kelly, emg pickups (81,85), through a crate GFX212-T that is running through a greenback celestion marshall 4X12. Im using a beta sm57a and a stageworks dynamic drum mic to mic the cabinet. The 57 on top right spkr, with slight angle toward outside cone, and the other mic on bottom left more angled toward the outside of the cone. Both about 1/2" away from the cab fabrick. Im tracking through a behringer 1604a into 24 bit sound card running Nuendo 1.6. The drum samples are from ddrums and I carefully selected all the samples and can edit the individual wav's(to cut the high hat a little for example). So I can doctor up the drum samples as necessary to get better sound. The kick drum sample I carefully chose for the metal "tick" sound. The bass I am running right into the mixer. The vocals will be redone by the vocalist. That particualr vox track, I recorded just to hear the vox! Although I am using an Oktava mk-219 for vox. The sound room is about 10X12 and I am dampening the best I can with assorted blankets.

I know I am getting closer and closer to a pro sounding mix, and any tips or suggestions I will thouroghly examine, and try. I am most interested adjusting the drum samples, and the rhythm guitar. Again, as allways, thanks for all you're awesome feedback

Jay

[TripleM]

How do you do those vocals? Man, halfway through one take and my throat would be shot. I liked the distorted rhythm guit. I thought that sounded pretty good.

The vocals could probably be brought up a bit (or the guits brought down). The vox are getting covered a bit. The vocal effect (delay or echo) isn't too bad, for the style. But maybe it's applied just a bit too heavy. I'd say reduce the delay time just a bit and reduce the wet/dry mix (make it drier) just a bit.

The lead guit is a bit on the thin side. I liked that guitar riff though - it was a good part and fit the song well.

I think a song like this needs BIG DRUMS and these were kind of small sounding.

My thoughts.

[Hardcore]

Ok, haven't listend yet (at work) but I've heard similar comments before. This popped into my head right away about the thin guitar. What is you're drive turned up to? Is it cranked? If so, turn it down. That does nothing but oversaturate the guitar tones with messy distortion. It may sound decent alone, but you won't be able to mix it. Especially with death vocals with mucho delay. These will clash so much with each other and you will have a hell of a time trying to eq them so they can both be heard.

about vox:
I guess this is pretty elementary but I'll post it anyway in case you've never heard it before. Do three takes. Put your delay and verb on two and leave the other almost bone dry. Use the two with the delay as your chorusing vox and drop the dry one dead center as your main. You still get the delay effect but it doesn't envelope the whole range of the vocals which can make them sound 'not right'.

I'll try to give the tune a listen tonite or tomorrow and make some actually informed comments about your song, but I just wanted to throw this out there before I forgot.

[chrisharris]

Originally posted by Smokepole
I'm too scared to comment

LMAO!!!

Vesuvius Jay, I haven't listened yet either, but your post caught my eye. This place definitely does help. I wish you luck with this, and with all your recording endeavors.

And if you get a few thousand posts under your belt, you'll learn to hate everybody in here.

[sjcrts]

Over all pretty good

I think the amp is why your guitar sound is thin. Solid state is tough to get a "thick" sound out of (that's been my experience). Are you scooping most of your mids out? Sounds like it, reminds me of the way Dime from Pantera scoops his and has that brittle rip your head from the shoulders kinda sound

-scott

[homeuser]

These are the clearest death metal vocals I have ever heard! I can actually understand a few words every now and then. Cool! I've never liked rap (spoken word) or death metal vocals, I think even bad singing sounds better anyday. Back to your mix, ok the vocals are too wet. Like another user said, record 2-3 takes of the vocals and combine them, dry. I think you'll like the effect. A TAD bit of delay or reverb, but that's it! Drums need to be fat and rocking for this type of music, and where's the bass?! I did enjoy your guitar playing, the solo was thin sounding. Perhaps clone the solo track, lower it an octave and blend it ever so slightly with the original one.

Ok yah, you may be able to prolong the vocal nodes that will develop over time by over using your voice in this style, by drinking at least a gallon of water a day. (I'm not kidding.)

[flash2ace]

hi vesuvius, well this is a interesting song i like the guitar riffs alot on this. i know what your saying about not getting that thick rythm sound and how hard it is to get because it is a struggle i am fighting myself. although my music is not quite as heavy as yours but i still srive for that heavy sound. it does sound alot fatter than your previous stuff i heard and i have to say that this recording is sounding much better, one thing though if your sending this out to get mastered the first thing i would do is tighten it up a bit on the lead guitar i heard a few mistakes and there is nothing worse than paying someone to master mistakes.
all and all its sounding good man, i would love to do a collab somtime with ya if we both ever get the time lol. keep rockin man.
god bless flash

[Hardcore]

Listening right now. The rythm guitar is pretty good for that type of amp. They don't get much heavier. But, BASS. You can make this song much heavier if you get that bass guitar kicking. You need a nice thick tone with some string click, IMO. I think you need to invest in something to really work on that (amp or DI box). Thicker bass drum. The snare could use some echo to it. It's really snappy and doesn't quite fit. Quiet down that hit hat and try to make it less mechanical. Different volumes, attack, etc. It takes a lot of work but that will help immensely. The vocals: I think what I posted will work great for this song. It'll make em bigger and thicker and you should be able to keep the delay.

[W.I.S.C.]

I know I was harsh on you in another thread,but I was offended by the crass statement.I'm over it now.Hope you don't think I'm too big of a dick.I wasn't trying to make an enemy or put you down.If I was rude...sorry.Didn't mean to dis you or anything...I have a special lackie for that.(hehehe)I liked this song the best out of all your previous threads.Highthats too loud.Your vox is mint.Love it.Glad you left it drier.Good overall mix.Good structure.The acoustic parts are mint.And the heavy riffs are creative enuff to entertain my HAADD.Keep the metal cummin!!!!!Rock out gents!!

[A1A2]

VesuviusJay:

I wouldn't even think about spending that 10G at school. I think there is still alot of basic stuff you can and need to learn from this board before you go on to some professional level institute.

I don't mean to be discouraging tho, try to balance your mix better, and refer to whatever commercial albumes you like as you mix.

Al

[jake-owa]

This reminds me of the Accused and Metal Church.

Pretty cool. The guitars need some balls.

The hat sounds like it's in a seperate room from the drums which are weak.

The faster part seems a bit souless...

This could use a real life jam to get it out of it's box.

Not a bad song though.

[VesuviusJay]

Thanks Guys/Gals! As always, much appreciated!