Patch Bay strategies

[Middleman]

Just picked up my first patchbay. I'm tired of having deal with all the connections in and between my gear. Let me throw out my thinking on setting this puppy up and I would like to hear any bits of wisdom anyone may have.

If I want, say, an equalizer hooked on the patch bay, I cannot just hook the outbound signal to the upper row and the inbound signal on the lower row. Because the patchbay is normalled it would just create a loop akin to pluging one end of a cable into the input and the other end into the output of the EQ. So I am going to have to offset the input inserts, lower row connectors, two connectors to the right (stereo left and right). Like the diagram below. Yeah I know, pretty kindergarten looking; I got a C in art class.

This means that for every effect loop I will be using 4 columns of jacks, correct? Seems to be a waste and if somone has a better strategy I would appreciate some advice.

[Middleman]

Well, that's good info. The patch bay came with everything normalled and yes, I can rotate the modules 180 degrees to De-normal them. I wanted to make sure that there was not any obvious routing I was missing before I De-normalled the entire bay.

I will leave two columns normalled for the soundcard to monitors loop but the rest would make the bay more efficient if I can just have straight through connections above and below for each effect.

Thanks.

[skippy]

Consider this: make them half-normalled. Then, to the two jacks above your EQ inputs, connect two of your aux bus outs from the mixer. To the two jacks below your EQ outs, connect two of the EFX return inputs of the mixer.

When you do this, the EQ is inserted between the aux bus outs and the efx return ins, _by default_: the connection is always that way, with no patch cables required on the front of the rack, *unless* you want to change that default by inserting patch cable to break the normal. And the aux outs and efx returns from your mixer are now conveniently accessible from the patch bay, instead of crawling around behind the board...

Here's an example: I have aux 3/4 set up normalled to the inputs of one of my reverb boxes, and its outputs are normalled back to my effects return A left and right. Similarly, I have aux 5/6 set up normalled to the inputs of my other reverb, which are then brought back to effects return B. When there are no patch cables in place, I'm set up for my usual operation: reverbs on those buses, since I like having two available. But if I want to change it, all I have to do is stick in a patch cable or two and go somewhere else...

[beak85]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...s/doc_id=89689

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...s/doc_id=90140

[jake-owa]

You can set a patchbay any way you want! That's the excitint thing about it. Use it to 'hardwire' (morelike softwire) all of the devices together in the way you use things the most. I just setup a few signal chains and lined the channels i use most often for things in a way that I could or would use it.

Never feed a devices inputs with it's own outputs, I don't know if it's bad for them but is seems nasty (meters pegged) and if you manage to get a listen to it it WILL tear your ears out (don't ask how I know).

If you never use things the same way just non-normal everything and be a patchin fool.

Studios use a very standard signal flow based system you will see it in any text about PBs.

[Middleman]

beak85, thanks for the links. I had finished building the bay a week ago but could have used that information then.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Wow, what did I do without this thing. I can jump back and forth between tracking and mix in just a couple of minutes. I ended up just de-normalizing the bay and using it for ins and outs on devices. Kept a few normalled connections for mults. The cost of cables though was killer. The cheapest ones I found were from the same company as the patch bay. So, the total bill was $50 for the bay, $90 for cables.

[Track Rat]

Wire is one the MOST expensive things in my studio. What you might want to consider going forward is buying bulk wire and connectors and solder your own. Plus your wire harness is custom sized to your rig which looks a hell of a lot neater.

[Middleman]

Track Rat,

Thanks......, now I have patch bay envy. I was gonna post my measly little bay, proud owner that I am, now I'm glad I didn't.

So where do you pick up the wire? Also, from the looks of things, your patching right into each channel insert on the board. Yes, No?

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by Middleman
Wow, what did I do without this thing. I can jump back and forth between tracking and mix in just a couple of minutes. I ended up just de-normalizing the bay and using it for ins and outs on devices. Kept a few normalled connections for mults. The cost of cables though was killer. The cheapest ones I found were from the same company as the patch bay. So, the total bill was $50 for the bay, $90 for cables.

You may want to at least normal some Direct outs to the soundcard inputs and the soundcard outputs to the Tape/Line Inputs to save needless patching. The less you use the patchbay the longer it and the cables will last.

What do you guys figure is your average cost per foot on good quality DIY 1/4 balanced cable including the jacks? Every time I think about doing it the savings just doesn't seem worth the effort. I'm mainly using Dsub for everything now and I can get 8 channels of 1/4" breakouts for around $65 for 10ft. That comes to $.82/ft.

[Agent Fitz]

fantastic thread here....I just learned a ton about patching - the articles were an especially nice find for a patching beginner like myself. one thing I haven't fully grasped though, and would appreciate some input on is the best way to configure a soundcard's converter box into the patch system....I know it's been touched on briefly, but I have a Delta 1010 and I'm curious the best way one would set up the ins and outs on it with the patch bay and how that would benefit the studio -- simply making the jacks more accesible, or is there more?

thanks in advance for any input

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by Agent Fitz
I know it's been touched on briefly, but I have a Delta 1010 and I'm curious the best way one would set up the ins and outs on it with the patch bay and how that would benefit the studio -- simply making the jacks more accesible, or is there more?

thanks in advance for any input

What do you have to patch it to? Do you have a mixer, external pres, effects?

[Track Rat]

Personally, I'd bring the inputs of a recorder/soundcard un-normalled into a patch bay. The outputs of the card (assuming there's more than two) I'd send directly to mixer channels. If you only have two outputs and you're doing just software mixing, I'd just send that to your monitoring system.

[Agent Fitz]

"What do you have to patch it to? Do you have a mixer, external pres, effects?"

in response to this TexRoadKill...I do have an external mixer, a simple yamaha mx 12/4 to go along with two external preamp channels in my presonus blue tube...as far as effects, I'm working on an Ensoniq DP/4...on compression and limiting I was thinking of getting the Presonus Bluemax (other half of the blue tube) and going with that....so.....not too much to patch really, but I was thinking perhaps for expansions sake and just looking to get your input so I see how I could, if at all, apply a patch system in the set-up. thanks again

[TexRoadkill]

Fitz- In that case you might want to normal a few preamps to the inputs on the Delta. Maybe normal your effects to the aux sends on the mixers. Normal the soundcard outs to a few channels on the mixer.

Even if you don't do any normalling it's a lot more convenient then re patching through the mixer.

[Agent Fitz]

yeah, I understand what you're saying Tex --- good call, I think I can run with it from there.