Useing a peak limiter while recording drums

[detuned6]

I have only been playing drums for about 2 years. Anyway i play extreme metal (really fast) so all my hits are not as even (volume wise) between slow to fast, I try to track as hot as possible and was thinking of using my behringer's(mdx2200) peak limiter funtion while recording on snare and kick to control those certian "bashes" that clip into the red. Would this be a good idea? does anybody use a limiter when recording a drummer thats not so constant ? Any pro's and con's? Im not into using compression while recording.

[mixsit]

If you like the sound of that on the recording, it makes sence to go ahead and use it then.
But when in doubt, it might be safer to compress after, and use lower record levels.
You didn't say what you were recording on. 24 bit? 144 db is a lot of spare room.
Wayne

[detuned6]

24 bit on protools via digi 001.

[plexi]

Do not limit!
Lower the gain to avoid peaks, recording at 24bit you have a lot of headroom.

Amund

[mixsit]

Slowly, the message spreads.
Hot levels are not necessary.

[detuned6]

Their is only a couple snare hits that makes the track clip.
Why not limit? im all new to this recording digital on a pc, maybe becase tape is more forgiving? Ill have to lower my gain.

[plexi]

Originally posted by detuned6
Their is only a couple snare hits that makes the track clip.
Why not limit?

Because limiting can mess up the audio, and most likely will....
Recording at 24bit, you do not need to record superhot.

Amund

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by plexi
Because limiting can mess up the audio, and most likely will....
Recording at 24bit, you do not need to record superhot.

Amund

He's not saying he wants to record superhot. I would say go ahead and limit, as long as you're only using it to limit the occasional spike. If the limiter engages, say, more than 10 times in a three minute song, turn the signal down. Limiting stray transients will not noticeably affect the sound.

[detuned6]

Originally posted by plexi
Because limiting can mess up the audio, and most likely will....
Recording at 24bit, you do not need to record superhot.

Amund

Could you elaborate on the "messing up the audio" part??

[plexi]

Originally posted by detuned6
Could you elaborate on the "messing up the audio" part??

Unless you can afford a VERY expensive limiter, most buildt-in limiters in budget compressor/limiters like DBX, Behringer etc.... will take some of the punch in the transients away....
Having a clean signal path is always important, so why run the signal through an additional unit, just to catch a few peaks.........?


Amund

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by plexi
Unless you can afford a VERY expensive limiter, most buildt-in limiters in budget compressor/limiters like DBX, Behringer etc.... will take some of the punch in the transients away....
Having a clean signal path is always important, so why run the signal through an additional unit, just to catch a few peaks.........?


Amund

Use an RNC. It's clean. It will not noticably affect your audio.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by cominginsecond
Use an RNC. It's clean. It will not noticably affect your audio.

But it's not a peak limiter.

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by chessrock
But it's not a peak limiter.

You're telling me that if you set the ratio to 25:1 and the attack as fast as possible and release nearly as fast as possible and the threshold to -.1 db that it's not a peak limiter? What's a peak limiter then?

[plexi]

Originally posted by cominginsecond
You're telling me that if you set the ratio to 25:1 and the attack as fast as possible and release nearly as fast as possible and the threshold to -.1 db that it's not a peak limiter? What's a peak limiter then?

The RNC is a wonderful compressor, but a peak limiter it´s not....
It isn`t fast enough to catch transients.

Amund

[chessrock]

Originally posted by cominginsecond
What's a peak limiter then?

Something that doesn't have attack / release knobs.

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by plexi
The RNC is a wonderful compressor, but a peak limiter it´s not....
It`s isn`t fast enough to catch transients.

Amund

In my experience it's fast enough to catch transients, if you set the attack as fast as it will go (remember that the fastest attack on an RNC is 1/5000 of a second). I have never had a problem using it as a peak limiter. Ever.

[plexi]

Originally posted by cominginsecond
In my experience it's fast enough to catch transients, if you set the attack as fast as it will go (remember that the fastest attack on an RNC is 1/5000 of a second). I have never had a problem using it as a peak limiter. Ever.

I can agree with your point, but it`s not a brickwall limiter, 25dB peaks(snare) over the threshold will go through...
But for me, it`s more than fast enough.

Amund

[chessrock]

Now 2 RNC's, chained, might be fast enough to be used as a peak limiter.

[Wrangler]

So what is a good limiter??

[keilson]

curious.....do larger studios always use limiters on the drums when first recording? OR do they record at lower levels and use software and hardware compressors after to bring up the volume of the tracks?

[cominginsecond]

Originally posted by keilson
curious.....do larger studios always use limiters on the drums when first recording? OR do they record at lower levels and use software and hardware compressors after to bring up the volume of the tracks?

A lot of pros compress the individual drums on the way into the recorder, and then, sometimes, even afterward. Very few pros compress the overheads.

[mixsit]

Originally posted by chessrock
Now 2 RNC's, chained, might be fast enough to be used as a peak limiter.

Don't know for sure, but I'd bet the that the second one would still have the too-little too-late respose.
But....
How 'bout making your own Look-Ahead circuit?
Mult the line, one goes directly to the side chain input, the other goes through a good digital delay set -1 ms.
You'd still have to watch your input levels into the delay but thats no problem (you got 144 db to play with) but now at least we could record nice and HOT.

Wayne

It's a joke, right.

[mixsit]

Originally posted by Wrangler
So what is a good limiter??

A hardware Waves L2.

But here, again, we have those pesky conversion levels to tend to.

(Still just having some fun with this here folks...

I used the 'Peak Stop's on the 166's for years on snares without too much signal losses. But then again some said that Anything I ran through a 166 had signal losses.
Wayne

[fenix]

Originally posted by plexi

Recording at 24bit, you do not need to record superhot.

This is a little less true than you think. Sure you don't need to record as hot as say 16 bit because you have more headroom, but I would advise not sending a weak signal to the recorder. Get it as hot as you can without clipping. The lower the signal while recording 24 bit, the more audible distortion you will have when you dither to 16 bit.

[fenix]

Originally posted by mixsit
I used the 'Peak Stop's on the 166's for years on snares without too much signal losses. But then again some said that Anything I ran through a 166 had signal losses.
Wayne

For the money, those peak stops on those units really aren't that bad.