Help! My wood's too hard

[ob]

No, this isn't the result of too much Viagra...

I am (very slowly) remodeling my 1923 garage apartment into a studio, which includes raising the ceiling by 2 feet. I was told by a friend not to nail the new ceiling joists to the roof joists, which are old and brittle, because it would probably knock loose the slate roof shingles.

So I tried to screw the joists into place with a drill, but the DAMN WOOD IS TOO HARD. So today I bought 3 inch lag bolts to bolt the new joists, and once I got them into the old joints, THE DAMN BOLTS BROKE. The wood appears to be fir, but it seems like iron!

Does anyone have any suggestions on tools to drive a screw or a bolt into this stuff? All my musical talent is slipping away while I wrestle with this project.

[Amateur Eric]

just wondering, have you tried drilling a pilot hole before you screwed the lag bolts in? this is something that needs to be done even on new, soft wood. if not only to make it easier to drive the screws, but to prevent the wood from splitting as well.

Good luck
Eric

[sheppard]

try using a nail gun.i doubt it would shake yer roof slates loose.

[ausrock]

Even a nail gun has limitations, especially where old hard timber is concerned..............been there, done that.

Pilots holes are definitely the better option.

[John Sayers]

Yup - pilot holes. We have to do that to new hardwood in aussieland let alone old stuff.

cheers
john

[Light]

Pre-drill pilot holes. Also, what kind of screws are you using? Makes a big difference.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[ob]

They are like deck screws - 3 inch long, and I'm not sure of the size.

I did the pilot hole thing this morning, and that seems to be working fine, although it will make this a long project.

Oh, well, better than having a low ceiling.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Don't use screws or lags if the wood is prone to splitting too. Add the weight of sheetrock to the joists, which in turn sounds like you are hanging from the rafters, and you might have some structural problems. In that case, I would use 5/16" machine bolts maybe. 2 or 3 per joint. But it would depend on other factors, and without seeing it in person its hard to say. Its just a suggestion. Normally, I would use screws or lags, but if the wood is too hard to screw into, then use machine bolts. Just drill a 5/6" pilot hole all the way through the joist and rafter. Oh, by the way, welcome to the world of musician turns home studio owner. I started this stuff 20 yrs ago. I just recorded my first project in my little studio this weekend. Ha! Lost all my chops along the way. But became a good builder at the same time. Its a trade off.
fitz

PS. I've said this over and over on this forum. SQUARE HEAD RECESS SCREWS are the answer. F--k phillips. #2 and 3. They look like deck screws. Only with the recess instead of phillips. They work FANTASTIC. yOU'LL NEVER GO BACK TO PHILLIPS.

[Light]

Originally posted by RICK FITZPATRICK
PS. I've said this over and over on this forum. SQUARE HEAD RECESS SCREWS are the answer. F--k phillips. #2 and 3. They look like deck screws. Only with the recess instead of phillips. They work FANTASTIC. yOU'LL NEVER GO BACK TO PHILLIPS.

Just so as you now, they are called Robertson head screws, named after the guy who invented them.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

they are called Robertson head screws, named after the guy who invented them.

Hello light, I work for an architectural mill/store fixture manufacturer, which uses Robertsons by the truck load. Square head's are different. We use them for casework of every kind. Eventhough both have recess, the type I am referring to looks like a sheetrock grabber. Indeed, they are grabbers with the square recess. I buy them in bulk, at Ace hardware. $3 a pound. All lengths. Thats all I hardly ever use for everything. But Robertsons have a very small head for exposed fastening, These have a very broad head, different alloy, shallow head angle, and will just about pull through a soft 2 x 4 with little effort as you don't have to push as hard. Just to keep the bit in the hole. Anyway, my .02. Hope it helps. BTW, I posted some fabrication technique tips in the studio building forum a couple of months ago, for those of you who are interested in DIY stuff. Especially fastening and fasteners.
fitz

[c7sus]

An old carpenter's trick is to put beeswax on your screws and lag bolts. Just dip the first 1/2 to 1 inch or so in a toilet waxie. You won't break the bolts and they'll be less prone to splitting your rafters.

Try to use low speed/high torque tools for this too. it will save your wrists. Use an additional handle with the drill motor, too, in the places where you have room.

Good luck.

[ausrock]

In days gone by when Brylcreme (sp) or "hair oil" was the norm, is was common to see chippies run a nail or screw through their hair prior to using it.

Spit works just as well though. Whenever I'm working with timber, it's usual for me to always hold a number of nails or screws between my lips making sure they are well lubed .

Hmmmmm.................screws, lube and lips all in the same sentence, and we haven't mentioned sex.

[Michael Jones]

"chippies"

That's funny!

[mjbee]

Originally posted by Michael Jones
"chippies"

That's funny!

No funnier than calling electricians "sparks" or "sparkies".