Alot of labor for WHAT ?

[Alanfc]

I just spent three hours cutting and squeezing and mangling one of my projects because I had found an old thread on clipping/distortion in Cakewalk. It made reference to the Console and master fader. I got curious. I have Cakewalk Home Studio XL.

So for the first time ever (yowch !!), I clicked over to the Console view. And saw that the clipping meter was solid red in every part of my song where there was music. So I went in and did everything I needed to do on every track, in every beat of the song, to keep the master meter from peaking the red box at any time. Including re-tracking some stuff. Finally, I did it.

BUT:
Did I have to? I really should have written you all this question before that - - anyway, it turned out to be a valuable learning experience. I saw the sonic mess and piles & piles of sounds on top of each other that collectively were making that meter pop up. (My next project will have less going on thats for sure).

* All the while I never heard one speck of CLIPPING or anything.

Questions:
1. my main fader was at -3 db. If I pushed it any higher it would have given me the friggin red clipping box.
Is that a problem? Will that still be strong enough to make sample CD's and an MP3 file to test my mixes everywhere?

2. When tracking this project, I shot for the highest input without popping the red box. I've heard that that's necessary to get all my Bits. I'm doing it at 24 bit/44.1k. Since I had to back way down from 0 db on the track's faders to make all this work (like in some cases -5 db),
am I losing the resolution I worked so hard to get while tracking?

Again I never heard any clipping ever during this whole process.

3. If the master fader shows clipping but my ears don't hear it, is this going to cause me problems later? I don't know what I should do here.

Do I do what sounds right or what the meters say..Or some combo of both?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Paul881]

Sometimes you will not be able to hear digital clipping, but that doesn't make it right to allow it to happen.

As you have found, whilst each of your tracks might not clip, when you bounce them together you will get summation, i.e. added together, they can push the meter into the red. Also, you need to allow some headroom so that when you Master using EQ, there is some room left for you to boost certain frequencies. You do not lose "resolution" in lowering your mix db's, merely amplitude, (loudness) which you can sonicaly boost when you come to Master using Expanders and Compressors.

Lastly, why use Console view? You can see everything you want in Track view, including level meters. Just click on the All tab at the bottom of the left hand side of the tracks. That will give you sight and access to everything you need to save switching between console view and track view

Most experienced users here don't ever use Console view.

[Pedullist]

1. No, that isn't a problem. -5dB or -10dB won't hurt you either. We're in the digital domain, hoorah! As long as the final result doesn't clip everything is OK!

2. Again, no. You're not 'losing bits' when you fade the track by -5dB. Volume perhaps, but no bits

3. When you grow older and more experienced you'll notice the difference, so yes: it is going to cause you problems later on. When a song is silently clipping on all tracks, it sounds muddy. Fix the volumes and it opens up. Don't know the physics behind it, but that's my experience.

And I agree with everything Paul881 said...

[Paul881]

And I agree with everything Paul881 said...

Thank you!

[Alanfc]

Thanks Paul881 and Pedullist ! I am very pleased.

One last question- Paul881

THis metering option you mentioned in the Track view, this will show me the main single output fader measurement? I can't wait to try it. I like the Track view much better.

(but the console view made me feel like a big time producer !)

Thanks again

[Paul881]

The screen is split into two, you can drag each one to the size you want. At the bottom are your Aux outs. Top is your ins. No need ever to go to console view. Apart from the feeling of power it gives you

[Alanfc]

Paul881

Thanks alot for the help

[moskus]

Originally posted by Paul881
No need ever to go to console view.

I never close the console view, NEVER! And I never will! MUHAHAHA!

The console is great for that kind of work, I like to read meters that are vertical, not horizontal... (and I'm kind of weird, I know... )

[Paul881]

Originally posted by moskus
I never close the console view, NEVER! And I never will! MUHAHAHA!

The console is great for that kind of work, I like to read meters that are vertical, not horizontal... (and I'm kind of weird, I know... )

Thats not just weird...its perverted

[James Argo]

Originally posted by Paul881
Thats not just weird...its perverted

LOL!!! Well, Paul, consider the source. It's moskus. The one who'd rather reverse those speaker L & R when he recorded L to R & R to L instead of reverse the stereo track...

[Paul881]

LOL!!! Well, Paul, consider the source. It's moskus. The one who'd rather reverse those speaker L & R when he recorded L to R & R to L instead of reverse the stereo track...

He did what?1*&^%? What a great idea

[TripleM]

I have the same problem as alanfc. But I also noticed that when I export the audio data, the resulting .wav file does not clip. Granted it has no headroom in several spots, but it doesn't clip.

Why is that?

Additionally, I've been working on ways to stop the clipping. I've been trying to make sure that everything is recorded as hot as can be (and then pull back the volume on its track during mixing), I compress more than I have before (lower threshhold and higher ratio). I've had limited, but not complete. success. Are there other things I could be doing?

Thanks.

[moskus]

James and Paul! Here! NOW!

[James Argo]

BTW, Triple M, it's kinda hard to tell exactly how to apply propher compression setting. If you're sure you record it the best that you can, I suggest you pick one of those presets as starting point. Tweak from there...

[Paul881]

Moskus,