Improving Ovation Sound?

[Jason M Hancock]

So, I'm trying to start a band and the very first time I hooked up with the drummer (who is also a recording engineer), these were his words when he saw my Ovation shallowback:

"Oh no....a sound tech's nightmare!"

Great start for a band, huh? Anyway, his point was that Ovations are way too thin and hung up in the high end and very difficult to get a good sound through all the gear.

I've yet to work with my guitar through any sort of amplification, so my questions are:

1. Is he in the right ballpark on his estimation of Ovation sound?

2. If so, can anyone recommend how to improve the sound? The style we plan to play is acoustic rock, kinda heavy bluesy riffs, and I'll most likely run the Ovation through a Fender Twin Reverb or an old Crate for the foreseeable future.

I assume a good preamp and/or EQ (other than the onboard EQ which is almost a joke) would do the trick????

Thanks!

Jason

[Even]

I have been on both sides of the ovation question. Seems the bottom line is that they either have a decent preamp pickup package, or they totally suck. The Shallow ones tend to suck. Very weak, way too much top end, and a high tendency to feedback. In those cases either micing or installing a decent blender can fix it. The downside is that its hard to find a quality blender that will route well in the shallow body. The whole concept of the ovation and its bowl back is to force the sound (and vibration) toward the hole (and bridge) of the giutar. Most graphite under-the-saddle transducers freak out and feedback on those thin pups.

[Jason M Hancock]

Thanks, Even. How do I get an Osterizer or Sunbeam under the bridge?! That's the only kind of blender I know!

Any possibility of a good sound by running the cable from the Ovation through a preamp before sending the signal to the amp?

[freshmattyp]

I run all my acoustics through a Boss EQ stomp box, then into the PA. Depending on how much of an "Acoustic Sound" you want, I would not recommend using a regular guitar amp. They tend to be way too mid-rangey, and they will really enhance the quacjiness of a piezo pickup. If one of your amps has an effects loop, try plugging directly into the effects return. Then you bypass the preamp section of the and can get a more uncolored sound.

[Even]

Acoustic guitars use a couple of different amplification methods. Generally speaking, most new guitars with an amplification system, incorporate an active (9volt battery) preamp pickup.

For example the new ovations use their own OP-30, OP-40 or "optimus". This is the standard type system that has the spiffy little 3 band eq and presence/vol knobs in an assembly on the side of the guitar. There is a graphite (or similar) bar pickup under the saddle that plugs into this little preamp.

The other common, and far more expensive method is a blender. A blender has the same set up as outlined above PLUS a small condensor mic that is generally latched onto the preamp and dangles into the guitar. Its a real honest to god mic and offers you the option of panning (blending) from saddle pickup or mic. So in effect you can be playing "direct" (via pickup) or miced.... or a blended combo of each. Pretty slick!

[nicolaad30]

I have run into the same situations. I own an Ovation guitar and I've tried it on different amps...the one that cought my attention was a Peavey (for acoustic guitars...model)...it sounded so nice.

Is there another way to make it sound like a real acoustic through any special pre -amp?

[Even]

Most decent acoustic preamps with some sort of EQ will improve the sound to some point, no question. But for the best results you really should consider the source of the sound (the guitar itself) befor you spend too much effort and money on outboard gear. Reason being:
A: you can not always be certain you will have the same outboard gear everytime you play (aka out at a buddies house)
B: Its very hard to make silk out of a sows ear.

Theres another active post in this forum (Tenacious D sound) that is sort of along these same lines. A tip mentioned in that forum suggests upgrading the nut and saddle from the (most likely) plastic that is stock.. with a bone unit instead. Bone has excellent longevity and sustain, and remarkable clarity. The brights are brighter and whites whiter. Replaceing a nut and or saddle is a fairly simple adventure that really puts a smile on your face with the first strum.

I am not downplaying outboard gear by any means. But I am definately going with the source as the best means of attack.

Several inexpensive and simple practices can dramatically change the sound of your accoustic.

Explore new strings. Different guages, metals, brands.

Replace inferior plastic parts with bone or graphite.

Clean your neck! Muddy or over oiled necks will kill the ring of an acoustic, or slow the playing responce.

Consider an onboard preamp/eq upgrade.

Just food for though. There really are ways to make a $300 guitar sound like a million bucks.

[Buck62]

Not to be rude, but....

The only way to get a good acoustic sound when you have an Ovation is to trade that plastic-backed piece-o'-shit in and get a REAL acoustic like a Taylor, Martin, or Yamaha.

[dragonworks]

Originally posted by Buck62
Not to be rude, but....

The only way to get a good acoustic sound when you have an Ovation is to trade that plastic-backed piece-o'-shit in and get a REAL acoustic like a Taylor, Martin, or Yamaha.

Buck may arrest me an put me in jail someday but I have to back him on this one.

[Richard Monroe]

I have to say when I auditioned a shit load of acoustics, I tried Ovation, including the top of the line, and was totally unimpressed. Making an album costs money, and your first expense should be an instrument worthy of recording. As far as blenders go, I'm a fan of the Fishman Prefix Plus, but how you would mount one in a guitar with no bouts is beyond me. I think you need a guitar and a good mic.
If you're stuck with the Ovation, get a good mic, run it into a good preamp, and then EQ that. If you're going DI, use a solid body. You're talking acoustic here, and an Ovation plugged in is not an acoustic, it's a bad electric guitar. With the right signal chain, though, they can be OK as stage guitars.-Richie

[philboyd studge]

Originally posted by Buck62
Not to be rude, but....

The only way to get a good acoustic sound when you have an Ovation is to trade that plastic-backed piece-o'-shit in and get a REAL acoustic like a Taylor, Martin, or Yamaha.

Sorry Buck but I own 5 of 'em, along with plenty of 'real' guitars. For stage use the newer pres on Ovations and Takamines can't be beat. For 90% of my work I need a hybrid classical with some acoustic sound to it (in other words no Godins) and when something comes along that can beat the two custom shop country artists I use, I'll certainly switch. The Taylor NS62C was crap and had to be returned.

As for Jason's dilema, being that it's going to be used in a band, I'd look for something like a Godin.

[Buck62]

Originally posted by philboyd studge
Sorry Buck but I own 5 of 'em

So YOU'RE the guy who's keeping that company from going under, eh?

[jcmm]

Originally posted by philboyd studge
Sorry Buck but I own 5 of 'em, along with plenty of 'real' guitars. For stage use the newer pres on Ovations and Takamines can't be beat. For 90% of my work I need a hybrid classical with some acoustic sound to it (in other words no Godins) and when something comes along that can beat the two custom shop country artists I use, I'll certainly switch. The Taylor NS62C was crap and had to be returned.

As for Jason's dilema, being that it's going to be used in a band, I'd look for something like a Godin.

Thanks Philboy........
I was starting to get a complex!

I bought one a few months ago and the onboard EQ with my DAW pres seems to sound pretty good.

Is it a Taylor????? No
But it didn't cost as much either, and is easy to record with.

Which is precisely why I bought it.

[Gidge]

i think in the context of a rock mix, Ovations have a big edge......

[TheGuitarMan]

Gah, what worthless guitars. Get a real acoustic for recording and an electric with a good piezo like Black Saddles for live.

[philboyd studge]

Originally posted by Buck62
So YOU'RE the guy who's keeping that company from going under, eh?

The mandocello is amazing.

The 12 string custom legend I've had since 1980 is sounding great with the new electronics. Acoustically it's crap.

The two country artists though identical are very different in playability, and the neck radius' are different. The black one is my favorite but I rotate 'em to keep my left hand from going south.

The '70 balladeer is unique in that it actually sounds good acoustically. Pulled the Fishman out of it and put in a compensated saddle and use it occasionally for recording.


I've got 30 years experience with these guitars and I know what I'm looking for but I'd advise folks to stay away from them for the most part.

[apush]

There seems to be a serious problem with quality control at Ovation. That said, I am quite happy with mine. I have had it for seven years. It's a deep bowl style and the prettiest acoustic you've ever seen. I had decided about a year before I bought it that I loved the "look' of that particular model, but wasn't excited about the sound. So I auditioned dozens of Ovations at several music shops. After a little under a year of auditioning guitars I found one that I was pleased with, but still not excited. So I put my $500 bucks down (as opposed to $2600 for a Taylor I fell in love with) and took it home. I put new strings on it (Elixirs) plugged it in and hit record. I still smile when I record with this guitar.

Acoustics are very much a matter of taste, I'll admit. But I am happy with my Ovation. And if I was rich man, sure, I'd by that Taylor.

I recorded a ruff of a song last night. No EQ, plugged in direct to my Akai DPS16, with a little verb and a little chorus.
http://www.petessportshop.com/acousticruff.mp3

Please do not judge my playing :{

[dragonworks]

I owned there top of the lne piece of shit in the eighties and thats exaxtly what it was, A top of the line piece of shit.
I never met an ovation I didnt like.
Bought me a guild and installed a fishman acoustic pickup under the saddel, smokes that ovation everytime.

[Even]

personal opinions on what guitar is great and what one is shit notwithstanding....

The point is that there are a few easy, and cost effective ways to improve the sound of nearly any guitar. Not everyone has the means to brisk off and buy a $2000 guitar to get an instrument that everyone else can approve of. Sometimes you have to work with what you have, and do your best to optimize it.

I have all sorts of respect for alot of you fellows, but the whole "the only way to make it work is to get the expensive stuff like me" gets pretty old.

[StevenLindsey]

I've always liked the Ovation sound myself. No, they don't sound like a solid wood. They're not supposed to. They're not solid wood. But they do have a nice place in the palette of guitar sounds. And they are very well made - nearly indestructible. I would like to pick a good used one up for my little studio one day. Don't worry who likes or doesn't like your guitars. Opinions are like noses....everybody's got one and most of them are goofy looking if you look at em real hard.

[LI_Slim]

People seem to either love Ovations or hate them. Personally, I'd rather play on two rubber bands strung over a shoe box. There are several much better guitars in the $300-$1000 price range.

But let's assume I like that Ovation sound. I don't know which pickup works best, but I'm assuming that since price is an issue you don't want to spend $250-400 buying and installing a Fishman or like under the saddle or blended system. So you'll probably wind up with a soundhole pickup; you might want to block off the soundhole altogether.

An LR Baggs DI box will help a lot with EQ and feedback. But at the very least, in the name of all that is holy, please, please do not put that thing through an electric guitar amp. Buy a Fender Acoustasonic amplifier; the smaller one costs less than $300.

[philboyd studge]

Been a few months since I've been to a GC but they were selling 'Country Artist' classicals at $399, blowing them out from $699, or $1099 retail. Absolute crap. Nothing like the ones I have. They reminded me of what Gibson is doing in making cheap imitations of their SG's.

[Richard Monroe]

Actually, I never thought of a magnetic pickup. It might work great with one of them plastic guitars, especially the thin bodies. Anybody have experience with that combination? It might work for some rock very well.-Richie

[LI_Slim]

I have seen people play an Ovation with the magnetic (in case anyone doesn't know, that's what I referred to as "soundhole") pickup. Best for strummers. But it's clearly the simplest solution.

[Major Tom]

OK here's my 2 cents. If you are playing with drums and other instruments that guitar will sound fine - trust me, your audience won't know or care if its a Korean Ovation or a $2000. Taylor. What they want is music they like. (unless you are playing at an "Ultimate Acoustic Guitar Tone" convention)

As far as the soundman't nightmare comment - Rule # 1 for a guitar player in a band: Don't ever listen to a drummer. That's a bunch of crap. I wouldn't listen to the gear snobs either. Guys tend to exaggerate the weaknesses of certain brands...gear snobs... brand whores... Some psychologists will tell you that men who make a big deal out of these types of things are compensating for their own perceived inadequecies of genital size. Ovations have been a popular choice for LIVE use for years. I would much rather listen to the guy with the $400 guitar play something interesting than the guy with the custom shop $5000 guitar playing some lame-o esoteric crap. Jimi Hendrix used cheap ass Danelectro's and other crap guitars early in his career cause he didn't have the cash. I'm glad he didn't wait until he could afford the best gear - we probably would have never heard of him. It's all about the music and how it makes you and your audience feel, its not about the frickin' gear! Use what you got.

Here's a "blend" system that I believe works really well for live sound in a loud environment, your Ovulation's piezo AND a sound-hole magnetic blended together. The piezo supplies the crisp high end, the magnetic contributes "girth"(bottom and mids), and mellows the overall sound.

I have to agree with the comment above about not using an electric guitar amp- it just won't sound right at all. BUT, if you don't have the cash for a dedicated acoustic guitar amp try this with your Twin or whatever; get a piezo tweeter - one of those round ones used in cheap PA speakers (I think they are only 8 or 10 bucks) wire it in parallel to your speakers, just set it on top of the amp (no need to mount it) voila you now have the crisp high end that was lacking before. No, it won't be a perfect solution, but it will be a huge improvement. I use this now on the rare occasions when I play acoustic at church and it made a world of difference. I put test leads on mine so I can easily hook it up and disconnect as needed. You DON"T need to worry about it changing the impedance (ohms) of your amp, it won't, you won't need a crossover, but wire it to one of the speaker's leads and make sure it is in phase - DON"T wire it to a 1/4" plug and plug into the extension speaker out jack on a TUBE amp, on most amps this will engage a different tap on the output transformer that is there for a lower impedance load. Guitar speakers frequency response starts dropping off at around 5000hz, the piezo reproduces roughly from 5000hz and up.