Again, what,why is/to Dithering?

[Skycries57]

Dithering??? What is it for and how/when do you use it in Wavelab 4.0? Thanks. Peter ><>

[Skycries57]

I think I found out... But is it Really important?

http://www.earlevel.com/Digital%20Audio/Dither.html

[moskus]

Yes, if you record in 24 bit and want to burn an Audio-CD (which is 16 bit) you need to dither.

[BloodHound]

For the not-so-faint-hearted. Here's a link to a very detailed paper.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audi...zoneguide.html

[ALBERTPIKE]

When you go from 24 to 16 bits, as stated above. Keep your project in 24 bit until you're ready to burn to CD. Then convert to 16 bits. That is when you dither. Set your dither to 16 bits. Only dither once per project or additional noise will cumulate. If you start out in 16 bits, you don't need to dither.

[Skycries57]

You say do not dither til you burn cd, what do you mean? I have dither in my Wavelab 4.0, but do you dither upon rec mastering or upon laying down a track? Can you use the dither option when burning w/ cd creater 5 platinum? I understand the importance of dithering, but the question is what is the basic Procedure of dithering in say Wavelab 4.0? Say I have a song in Wavelab and want to burn and master the final cd song down, what are the steps after that to add/record dither?
Sorry for the many questions, but I have a feeling 9 out of 10 guys on that BB are confused as me when it comes to the final Dither... thanks for the help! Peter ><>

[dachay2tnr]

OK, since you posted this in the Cakewalk forum, I'll assume you are using Sonar or HS to do your multi-tracking. I'll also assume that you are recording in 24 bits - otherwise why the question?

Once you have finished doing your tracking and mixing, you are going to want to export a wave file from Sonar so that you can finalize it in Wavelab. Make sure you have the Apply Dither checkbox turned off in Sonar, and then File > Export leaving the bit depth set to 24.

Open the file in Wavelab and perform whatever finalization steps you need (eq, compressiuon, loudness maximizing, etc.). When the song is completed to your satisfaction, the bit depth needs to be reduced to 16 in order to burn it to CD. This is the very last thing you want to do to the file.

You can reduce the bit depth by simply changing it from 24 to 16. However, this simply chops off the extra 8 bits, and can leave the music with some unpleasant sounding artifacts. Therefore, when dropping the bit rate, it is usually wise to dither the file at the same time. Without getting too technical, dither simply adds shaped noise to the file in order to make the bit reduction more pleasant sounding to your ear.

In Wavelab, you have the Apogee dithering algorithm - which is purported to be quite good. Therefore, your final step should be to load the UV22 HR into the dithering module. Set it to 16 bits, and set the other parameters to get the best sound you can. Then "render" it.

This will dither it to 16 bits, but the file itself will still be 24 bits. IOW you'll have 16 bits in a 24 bit wrapper. Go to Edit > Audio Properties and change the bit resolution to 16. This is effectively truncating the file; however, it is OK at this point since you have already dithered it to 16 bits.

At this point I usually save the file under a new name (e.g., Song#12 - 16 Bit Mastered), however that is a personal preference. If you wish you can simply save it under the same name - although in doing so you will lose the original 24 bit file should you need to go back to it.

You are now ready to burn the 16 bit file to CD, using whatever software you wish. However, I can't imaging why you would want to use EZ CD, when you already have Wavelab.

[ALBERTPIKE]

Exactly.

[Skycries57]

AWESOME response and answers to my questions. Thankyou very much! Peter ><>

Now what is the dif between 24 & 16 bit? .... just kiddin', thanks.

[moskus]

Originally posted by Skycries57
Now what is the dif between 24 & 16 bit?

I think it's the bits you get with you Chicken McNugget, it's dependant on the menu-size you order...

[ALBERTPIKE]

Here's what I do: I record the tracks in 24 bit in Cubase and perform the mix.I export that as a stereo file from Cubase to a file labeled "Mixdown," in 24 bit and not dithered. I open the mixdown file in Wavelab. I apply compression, eq, reverb, etc until I like it. I render this file, still in 24 bit, to a file called "Master." This makes it easier to redo the "master" after I've listened in my car, etc. I then open the song from the "master" file, and turn off all the effects in the master out section except "Dither." Then I render that file to 16 bits using the Apogee HV dithering, autoblack on, to a file called "For CD." The principles here are that you keep all of your work in 24 or 32 bit for all of your tracking, mixing, and processing, then convert to 16 bit with dither as the last step, applying dither only once. Anybody got a better way to do it?

[moskus]

Sounds pretty good to me...

But we don't take advice from Cubase users.

[ALBERTPIKE]

Whoops. I meant Sonar........

[moskus]

Tsk tsk... don't let it happen again!

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by ALBERTPIKE
I render this file, still in 24 bit, to a file called "Master." This makes it easier to redo the "master" after I've listened in my car, etc.

NOt sure I understand this. If you "render" the file aren't you applying the effects. And once you've applied the effects, how can you "redo" the master later.

In my case, I keep the original file (your "mixdown" file) and simply keep a notepad of what mastering I've done to it. Then render, dither and drop to 16 bits.

[ALBERTPIKE]

The effects are "rendered" from my mixdown to master file. I do this in 24 bit, and call my result a 24 bit "master." I do this because I analyze this "master" file to check peak and loudness levels, and then sometimes I normalize this file. You're right, to "redo" this I would have to go back and start again from the mixdown file. I sometimes make more than one "master" and compare them. I just do all that in 24 bit. I'm ending up with an additional 24 bit file, but otherwise we are doing the same thing. The point for this thread is that when you convert to 16 bit, that's the time to dither.

I like your notepad idea.