Mastering question

[Jack Real]

Hi

I'm new at mastering so I might be totally wrong but here is my question. Yesterday, to expand the stereo image of my song, I took a copy of the song, reverse the channel and invert the polarity and re-injected that signal into the original song. Now my question is how much of the processed signal should be re-injected into the original song ? I got the best results at 10% but 15% seems to affect the waveform the most. 20% was too much since the right and left instruments were comming towards center. I don't know if this depends on the mix but I would guess that the % should be pretty standard for every songs.

Also, this process has increased the peak/average ratio of the song. Should I apply a limiter after the processing ?

Thanks,

Jack Real

[tubedude]

I would guess that this will effectively destroy your bass content.
Seems weird to me.
If you want to increase stereo, maybe try Waves S1 or something similar. It works fairly well.
Otherwise, recorid it in the kind of stereo you want it in, in the 1st place.
This sounds like trouble to me.

[Jack Real]

I would guess that this will effectively destroy your bass content.
Seems weird to me.
If you want to increase stereo, maybe try Waves S1 or something similar. It works fairly well.
Otherwise, recorid it in the kind of stereo you want it in, in the 1st place.
This sounds like trouble to me.


Ans: I think I read on this forum or elsewhere that by doing this, you accentuate the stereo image outside of the speakers. So if your right speaker is 5 feet away from center, the most right instrument will sound like it's 6 feet away from center. I can not tell for sure that what I did yesterday is doing that but when I compare the processed version with the no-processed version, I have the impression that the center line is more clear because the side instruments are further away. Anyway, if nobody on this forum is doing that, maybe it's because it's not a good thing to do.

Regards,

Jack Real

[TexRoadkill]

What you are doing is a valid technique for expanding the stereo spread and it's pretty much what all those 'spatializers' do. But like the dude says it will kill your bass and middle info.

It's a cool trick for certain tracks and special effect but it's not really a good mastering practice unless you are making yoga relaxation tapes. The question is why do you think you need a wider spread? Just move your speakers farther apart

[Tekker]

Originally posted by Jack Real
Ans: I think I read on this forum or elsewhere that by doing this, you accentuate the stereo image outside of the speakers. So if your right speaker is 5 feet away from center, the most right instrument will sound like it's 6 feet away from center. I can not tell for sure that what I did yesterday is doing that but when I compare the processed version with the no-processed version, I have the impression that the center line is more clear because the side instruments are further away. Anyway, if nobody on this forum is doing that, maybe it's because it's not a good thing to do.[/B]

If you do that to only one instrument, then yes it will clear up the middle and make that instrument sound like it's "outside" of the speakers and I use this techique sometimes (reverse the phase on one side of a track)... But if you do it to the whole mix it will still push those instruments "outside" the speakers, but at the same time it will also decrease the center channel because as you bring the level of the reversed track up, you are cancelling out the center channel and you will loose punch and clarity in the bass, vocals, kick, snare, and anything else panned dead center.

Stereo expanders typically do the same type of thing, so I avoid using them on an entire mix... If there are certain instruments that I want to widen then I will use ot only on those tracks. Stereo expanders on an aux channel after a reverb can also be a great way to expand the overall song without affecting clarity and punch in the center.

Hope that helps!

-tkr

[chessrock]

Isn't that what some of those cheezy karaoke machines do to "remove" the orginal vocals on a CD?

If you're looking to get a wider spread on some tracks, try using a binaural head or jecklyn disk. If you experiment with it, you can give the illusion of sound coming from over head and even from behind -- but it takes some experimentation in order to make it translate to a standard speaker setup.

[Tekker]

Originally posted by chessrock
Isn't that what some of those cheezy karaoke machines do to "remove" the orginal vocals on a CD?

Yep!

Last summer when I was up playing guitar at my church's kids camp, there was a choir that came up and sang and they did that to all the CD's they sang along with and it really did not sound good at all.

-tkr

[sjoko2]

Do what you are doing on individual channels by all means......... but I wouldn't consider it to be something to do with mastering?