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#1
03-12-2003
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Autotuners, should we use them?
Before I get an angry mob of homerecorders on my back, I would like to clarify my opinions on the use of autotuners.
Let me start with an example: OK, you’ve just recorded a vocal part. It sounds awesome, except for one note that’s just a tiny bit out of tune. You decide to record the part again. This time that particular note is perfectly in tune, but the rest doesn’t sound half as great as the other take. You don’t have time to do any more takes (often the case in expensive studios). Should we fix the first take by using an autotuner? Yes, you should. I prefer you’d do it again the next day but if you can’t, it’s the only possible way I guess. Look, I don’t have any problem with the use of autotuners, quantizers, reverb or whatever to cover up a little mistake. A recording is not a live performance, you don’t want to hear that one ‘mistake’ over and over again. If I record a basspart and it sounds OK except for one little note that’s behind the beat, I’ll cut the damn note and pull it to the left until it sounds right. Not that I’m proud of it…usually I record the whole thing again until it’s right. But sometimes I’m lazy… I also like the sound of an autotuner as an ‘effect’: especially on its most extreme settings. Chris’ latest song, Cher’s single, Roy Vedas, the big fat autotuned chorus in N’Sync’s It’s Gonna Be Me (gonna, gonna, GONNA!) I love it. As an effect it’s always funny and weird, and I happen to like funny and weird sounds. My problem starts when people just switch on the autotuner to sound hip, or by default. It sickens me to hear Shania Twain, who is an absolutely superb singer, using an autotuner just to sound hip. It’s on every friggin’ single I hear on the radio nowadays! Furthermore, in the case of us amateurs: if you turn it on by default I don’t think you’ll ever improve your singing. And that way, we will ALWAYS be amateurs. You record your vocal part, switch on the autotuner and it’s OK. How will you ever learn to improve your intonation? Besides, we have all the time in the world. We don’t have to release an album within two months, or learn dance routines and stuff like that. So what’s the problem with recording it again? Above all, I just don’t like the sound. When it’s turned on ALL the time, it all sounds so robotic and inhuman. People often ask me: why don’t violins have frets? I always tell them that’s because the violin was built to emulate a human voice. Without frets you can make the glides and small alterations in pitch that makes it all human, and it makes it easier to express your emotions. Look, I can accept an off note, listen perfectly ‘through’ it, as long as the rest is good enough. No problem. My experience is that I’m never truly emotionally touched by vocal part that has been autotuned to the max. And I’ve never heard an autotuned vocal part that’s ‘sexy’. When soulvocalists sing in a funky/sexy/provocative way they often glide to notes a lot, and intonate slightly too low most (sometimes even ALL) of the time. That’s the kinda thing that erects stuff in my pants. Add an autotuner and the effects is gone…bad, because I like that tight feeling. Anyway, I’m not looking down upon you guys. Please use ‘m when you need ‘m. Who am I to tell you not to? In the end it all comes down on a matter of taste: again, I just don’t like the sound…(but I can listen 'through' it if I have to, music = music)
__________________
http://www.nowhereradio.com/trojka http://www.nowhereradio.com/trafo 
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#2
03-12-2003
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i bought the antares autotune because i am a lousy singer, but ive never used it, ive tried believe me nut i cant figure the darn thing out lol. its not that i disagree with the use of autotune,(lord knows i could use some vocal tuning lol)to bad they didnt have this out back in the early 90s late 80s because milli vanilli wouldnt have gotten sued. god bless tim pate
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#3
03-12-2003
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I have Anteres. I never feel bad about using it. I do it surgically. It's when people just run the entire track through it that they should have their license to record revoked.
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#6
03-12-2003
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Quote:
__________________
http://www.nowhereradio.com/trojka http://www.nowhereradio.com/trafo
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#7
03-12-2003
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i agree that it is being a bit overused, im sure bands like nsync and britny spears use autotune, i swear i can hear it in britnys music, my daughter thinks she is the greatest lol. ill try it again and see if i can get it to work because no matter what i did it didnt sound wright to me.
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#8
03-12-2003
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It's a tool... you can use it well (ie, sparingly and as needed, in this case), or you can abuse it and damage the end-result in the process.
To clean up a few bum notes in an otherwise good vocal performance, I have no problem using it... but as Track Rat said - to blindly run an entire vocal track thru it is abuse in my opinion - both of the tool, and of the listener's ears!
__________________
bruce valeriani recording articles http://www.bluebearsound.com/images/bb_siglogo.jpg
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#9
03-12-2003
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I've just been educated. I didn't know that it was used on all those cuts so freely.
The violin was a good example. A lot of guys who use a blues approach in any kind of music, which is a lot of us, should beware. The blues scale we play is a derivative of the vocal blues scale. The vocal blues scale "IS NOT IN TUNE". It's a fact. When it's sung to sound perfect to the human ear and then checked, some of the notes are a semi- tone off. It's the same reason why a fixed pitch instrument like the piano can never capture the sound without that STERILE element. If you play a blues scale on a guitar and bend that 3rd up a "hair" each time. Then play it without adjusting, it actually sounds out of tune. This "perceived" tuning that we're accustomed to has got to play a big part in the whole auto tune deal, wouldn't you think? Joe I had a chart up here but nothing line dup, sorry Last edited by Smokepole; 03-12-2003 at 07:17..
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#10
03-12-2003
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I think autotune is just another tool. To me, the point of studio recording is to paint a sonic picture ... creating an illusion .... wow ... that's heavy. Anyway, if I can use autotune to achieve the sounds (voices?) in my head ... great. If I can bang on a pot and achieve it ... great .... and believe me, some of my music would sound better if I simply banged on pot.
I really don't care if it's purely me or synthesized. I don't think most listeners do either. Ultimately, if something is annoyingly overused, the listening audience will respond accordingly. If I want to enjoy a "performance", I go see the band/person live. So many musicians I know get lost in "discussions" about equipment and technique, they never make any music. IMHO BPOCO
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#11
03-12-2003
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interesting thread..
too bad it's in the wrong forum.. someones song just got bumped off the first page for this.. it should have been here http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/for...p?s=&forumid=2
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#12
03-12-2003
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I usd to have the hardware version of Antares ATR-1a... Nice Unit.
I used to be a big fan of these things.. Till, I realized punching-in the bad spots was better. I particulariliy think it's useless, and it allowed me to be lazy with my singing... (Just my opinion though)... But I have to say, it did work ok, when I did use it.., And I liked it at the time. As for fixing those few bum notes in an otherwise perfect performance.. I guess I would just use the punch-in feature on my Pro Tools.. I was reading above about the woes of trying to make punch-ins match... I have never had a problem with it... But, there is a trick. The trick with punch-in repairs is, you must go through the vocal track and realize the mistakes and fix them during the original session...., And make sure the vocalist is the same distance from the mic etc... If you go back a week later and try and set your mic, room, voice up the exact same way, your not going to get a matching punch. There are many other issues too.. Like, making sure the singer is singing the same volume and expression etc... I had that Antares thing sitting around forever doing nothing.... I just find that punching that bad spot in is more "real" and it is in fact easier, than setting up that Antares to fix the spot. YMMV Joe
__________________
 "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the hospital, dying of nothing." 
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#13
03-12-2003
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If you have the talent there to punch-in again, that's fine... but after everyone's gone home, and you're working on the mix... and in repeated listening, those one or two bum notes become increasingly glaring, you can't really do a punch-in - that to me is an appropriate use of the tool....
__________________
bruce valeriani recording articles http://www.bluebearsound.com/images/bb_siglogo.jpg
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#14
03-12-2003
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Yeah, I see.... Good point Bruce
Like I was saying, thats why you have to listen and judge the performance on the spot while the singer is there and you are set up... I just finished a demo for my band and it went great.... Singer did the vocal track.. We got the best one he could do, and then we listened, and found all the spots that were a bit funny......and then just went back and fixed up the spots with Punch-Ins... Worked great.. Of course, that is me...I am pretty good with hearing tuning mistakes on the spot... I am very finicky.. nothing really has a chance to become glaringly worse in the mix.. Cause, I am tyrant with my singers.. (Ask Chris) , and I have usually gone through and fixed it up with the singer, on the day he tracked... Even the most minor thing... But.. Thats me... Every engineer is different... Like you were saying, some engineers would not notice the mistakes for a day or so, and then you would definately have problems matching the punch-ins... And, yeah that would be a great fix for the antares.. Joe
__________________
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the hospital, dying of nothing."
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#15
03-12-2003
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Quote:
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#16
03-12-2003
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Yeah, I know I should've posted it in another forum. But I didn't know which one exactly, and above that: it was a reaction on the 'Gee Chris used a lot of autotuner in his latest song, don't you think?' thread. I said something like 'I hate autotuner', then some people responded in such a way that I felt some explanation behind my bold statement was necessary...
Perhaps a moderator could move it?
__________________
http://www.nowhereradio.com/trojka http://www.nowhereradio.com/trafo
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#17
03-12-2003
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About punching in: even that can get pretty extreme nowadays. I've heard stories about producers cut and paste parts of words from different takes. So the take the 'fee' from take 3 and the 'ling' from 24, geez.
That's a bridge too far, in my opinion.
__________________
http://www.nowhereradio.com/trojka http://www.nowhereradio.com/trafo
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#18
03-12-2003
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Oh, I'm just watching quietly, lol.
Hey Ped, if you go up to your inititial post, hit "EDIT," you can see the option to delete the thread. There's another thread in THIS forum where it probably should be moved if you don't wanna' start it in the recording forum. (not a moderator, lol)
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#19
03-12-2003
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NOOO!!!
Don't you DARE delete it after we all took the time to respond.. Email slack and ask him if he will move it... simple as that.
__________________
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in the hospital, dying of nothing."
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#20
03-12-2003
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Quote:
__________________
bruce valeriani recording articles http://www.bluebearsound.com/images/bb_siglogo.jpg
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#21
03-12-2003
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I took the time to recopy this here:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...731#post681731 (this is the mp3 clinic's version of the cave, lol). Any objections now Vox?
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#25
03-12-2003
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Do I still have to delete this post? Or should I wait for Slackmaster to move it?
Bit confused here... 
__________________
http://www.nowhereradio.com/trojka http://www.nowhereradio.com/trafo
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