Is This Mix Closer????

[auburncatfish]

I've retracked and remixed with my average at best talents. Here's the stage 2 product. Feel free to rip to shreds.

"The Harbor Of Lights"

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2340&alid=-1

Here's a link to the posts from the first thread.

http://www.home-recording.com/bbs/sh...rbor+of+lights

[shadowfax]

for what its worth i liked it and couldnt find anything wrong with it mix wise.

[RetroJocke]

First I will say I am a metalfreak and normaly don´t like all those ballads and radio-pop songs.... But this song has "IT".
I really like the atmosphere in this song. Cool vox..... This is one of the best ballads I´ve heard in this forum so far, Yes I am a newbie her but, as I said I really liked this one.
Good work

Rock on
/Jocke

[flash2ace]

ok catfish i must say this realy sounds like a good mix from what i can hear. man great vox, i realy like your voice alot. the guitars sound nice and it sounds like you kept alot of the natural sound as an acoustic should have. the strings sound nice in there. i agree with the above this is one of the best ballads i have heard on here and ive been here for a while. thanks for sharing realy enjoyed it, god bless tim pate

[twist]

Hey catfish, I listened a couple of times, and really couldn't find anything to nit pik. I don't want to post just for the sake of posting, but I just want you to know that someone out there is listening and enjoying the tune! I'm at work, so it's more a casual listening environment than a critical one, but it sounds pretty good through my bookshelf speakers.


Twist

[cstockdale]

First comment is something I would like the answer to as well:

vocals need to have the sharp "s" "t" and "f" sounds tamed.
What kind of mic is this from?

The strings need to be separated better, they really fight with the low end on the acoustic guitar for space. Not sure if this needs to be done with EQ, panning or both.

The guitar sounds very nice, and very natural, I like it.

Overall, I really dig this song. It is sweet, and fits in the style I listen to.

and in a humorous way (not wishing to start any flaming), I do not consider this a "ballad"... this is just a damn good downtempo song.

[muzakal]

Well - I'm listening to it just now, and I won't be afraid to dig in.

First let me say that your vision and orchestration for the song are great.

Bass needs to be tighter (a bit more in tempo) as it hits and misses a few times.

Vocal is okay, but autotune would be some software I would invest in shortly.

I would dry the vocal up a bit, too - don't drown out that pretty voice of yours.

There's more, but I have to jet just now.

Just my 2 pentz, and worth just that.

-muzakal

[auburncatfish]

Originally posted by cstockdale
First comment is something I would like the answer to as well:

vocals need to have the sharp "s" "t" and "f" sounds tamed.
What kind of mic is this from?

I was kind afraid of this.

I used a MXL 1000 condensor with pop filter too. The vocal style I used for this song though was such that I crept up real close to the mic. The s,t and f's are relics of that proximity. I'm unsure of how to solve this problem.

A

Thanks to everybody who's responding. It makes a huge difference inside the mix.

[erichenryus]

hey, i hear a big improvement here from your earlier posts. your vocals are much more up front where they belong!

You could use a de-esser to tame that sibilance. just run it on the vocal track. try running the vocals through a pretty heavy compression centered around the 5k mark cause that's where it's jumping.

[auburncatfish]

Originally posted by erichenryus
You could use a de-esser to tame that sibilance. just run it on the vocal track. try running the vocals through a pretty heavy compression centered around the 5k mark cause that's where it's jumping.

Great image there eri. How did you pull that off? I'm not real familar with what a de-esser is. Can anyone enlighten me? I'll try heavy comp too and see where it goes. Although since I've been criticized for using too much comp, I've been trigger shy with it.

[TripleM]

I liked the feel of the song. I liked your voice too. Yeah a lot of sibalance.

The doubled guitars sound real cool. Is there a missed note in the intro at :06? Don't know if that's what you meant to do or not.

Were the vocals doubled? It didn't sound like it - it sounded like you got the vocal sound through effects. But there are certain spots (e.g., the word "side" at :54) where I can hear vox slightly out of sync. Or so it seems.

Anyway, I thought this was a good job.

[erichenryus]

Originally posted by auburncatfish
Great image there eri. How did you pull that off? I'm not real familar with what a de-esser is. Can anyone enlighten me? I'll try heavy comp too and see where it goes. Although since I've been criticized for using too much comp, I've been trigger shy with it.

image is from wavelab. it's a nifty little tool for that kind of analysis.

a de-esser just compresses frequencies within a certain range. so when you hit an ess too hard it will stop that frequency from getting too loud. you can do this with either a multiband compressor such as the one that comes with wavelab or there are plugins specifically for the purpose of de-essing which is like having a compressor that only works within a given band of frequencies but leaves everything else alone.

[cstockdale]

I just got this trick from a friend who runs a pro studio (I haven't tried it yet, but it seems simple enough). It is a technique to De-ess things without a de-esser (this is essentially what a de-esser does):

This may seem counterintuitive, but afterwards it will make a lot of sense:

First: clone the vocal track so that you don't destroy what you have already then:

take vox through an EQ, most sibilance is around 5000-5500 Hz: boost this to get the peaks to really jump out. At this stage it will sound WORSE not better, but there is a method to this madness.

Now you have created a vocal track where the sibilance is awful, but if done right, the sibilant frequencies should stand out like a sore thumb in waveforms.

Next: use a compressor to knock off those peaks. Use a short attack and short decay: you only want to hit the attack, not the rest of the waveform

In other words, you alter the waveform to make the part you don't want stand out even more so that the compressor can hit that part alone and leave the rest intact.

I just got this off the phone, and the guy makes a good living in his studio, so.... give it a shot. i will be trying too.

[erichenryus]

i'm not a pro but that method you describe seems a lot like rubbing two sticks to light a cigarrette when you can just buy a bic lighter.

I guess if you're on a tight budget without any multiband capabilities though........you gotta rub sticks.

so i'll give that a try, cause i'm still to cheap to pop for the real version of wavelab. thanks for the tip.

[cstockdale]

It may seem like more work, and a De-esser will do the same thing, however, as i have just learned, this technique also applies to many other situations where you want to knock out certain frequencies without the issues that just pulling down that frequency in an EQ will do.

[chrisharris]

LOVE IT.

Now, on to the sibilance question. I've been working very hard on this lately, and here's the sum total of what my hours of experimentation have taught me.

1. Compress the crap out of the vocal first...I mean, squish it.

2. THEN, run the de-esser or the freq. peak killer like cstockdale mentioned.

3. Then use a plate reverb instead of some ambient room.

That's the only thing that has gotten close for me. (and auburncatfish, I think the only people who bitched about compression were talking about on your acoustics on an earlier post...and it was a tad heavy for a minimal piece, but to be honest, that's exactly how I would have compressed them if they were going into a "full" mix.

[fprod south]

I like your stuff a lot, and this sounded the most professional so far.

The sibilance doesn't bother me. If you do take the de-esser advice, go gentle. But I think the vocals sound great. I think the sibilance is only apparent because there's no drum set to hide it.

You've got a really dynamic voice - I say let it be dynamic.

[powderfinger]

you've already received some good advice on the sibilance.......i would look into that because otherwise it's a pretty flawless production..........

the vocals were a touch harsh at points....just a touch more compression..........the acoustics sound great, what kind of mics do you use??

great work man

[W.I.S.C.]

Great acoustic sound and nice song arrangemnet.Goo-goo Dolls influence?(Sorry not meant to be a dis...)Powerfull and mellow at once.Not crazy about your falsetto...the rest...what was mentioned about the harshness in the vox.Needs a guitar solo.Good work.Good mix.

[Toki987]

With these average at best ears I hear a huge dynamic difference. The strings sounds behind you make a nice smooth canvas to reflect the subtle guitar variations and nuances in the voice you paint on it. by having that consistent reference point behind you, your dynamics are more present instead of coming in and out of space. With your softer singing it sorta stands it out there. Maybe that makes some kinda sense, if not it was fun trying to figure out how to say what I`m hearing

[auburncatfish]

Originally posted by powderfinger
the vocals were a touch harsh at points....just a touch more compression..........the acoustics sound great, what kind of mics do you use??

More comp on the way. I used an MXL 1000 condensor and a shure 58.

Cstock and Eri - Thank you for your advice on de-essing. I've never done it before, so when I get the vox run through, I'll post another mix to see what y'all think.

and fprod, I'll heed your advice on being light with it.

WISC - Not a diss with the goo goo dolls bit, everyone has said that to me, but really a light influence....curious. I'll try and mix in a guitar solo. I was struggling with whether I should've done that or not anyways.

Toki - makes perfect sense. Thanks for your comments as always.

A.

[cstockdale]

The de-essing trick I suggested is one I haven't tried. It was passed on to me by a fellow who runs a pro studio. I just tried to use the technique myself and it isn't very easy....but I am going to keep trying. Just wanted to warn you it isn't nice and simple (But I don't have a multiband compressor....so I have to bang rocks together)