Can't get the limiter settings right HELP!!!!!

[dantell]

I've been using Sonar's Limiter for the final mix to get the levels maxed up before I burn a song onto a CD. The problem is I'm just getting too much bass and that friggin' droning sound after I run it through the limiter (volume maximizer). I'll give you my settings I'm using
Output gain 4.5
Attack Time 4.7
Expander Ratio 1.0:1
Compressor Ratio 100:1
Release Time (ms) 271.3
expander thr (db) -95.0
compressor thr (db) -8.4
This setting for some reason throws way too much bass out. I have experimented with different settings and it just drives me crazy. PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME!!

[TexRoadkill]

If you are getting too much bass then roll it off with some EQ.

There is no reason to use Expansion and compression at the same time so set the Expander to 0 and see if that helps.

[tvaillan]

Silly qestion ... but why exactly do you need to 'max out' your levels with a limiter?

I know what it's for. I know why it's used.

Could you just increase the volume of the mix and only add a small amount of limitting to ensure that no clipping occurs and get a wee amount of 'loudness maximizing'?

Cause if it butchers the mix .. then why do it.

You may want to add compression on the lower end of the spectrum first (and do what texroadkill suggests, of course) . Get it sounding right, then add a few dB of gain on the overall, and get it to a decent level. Then add your limitter to taste.

Just a comment. I'm not a pro or anything.

[mixsit]

I have sonar and have to admit never used this plug, but a few more observations to add...
With a ratio of 1:1, there would be no expansion.
The compressor settings look like a cross between general 2-buss compression and heavy limiting, not a 'maximizer' effect.
The attack time is fast enough to kill most transients (and most of the impact of the music), but not fast enough to stop all peaks, so you still may be able to bring the level up to max.
The release time is more in line with perhaps a moderate to slow tempo effect.
I would recommend you break these into two separate functions.

Buss compression, which can be gentle to moderate ratios, with attack times slow enough to let the impact survive, and both attack and releases time tailored to the individual song -a thickening and tempo related effect. (if needed at all.)

'Maximizer', a zero-attack, very fast release, meant to be as transparent as possible, in otherwords, how many (and deep) can transients be cut off w/o killing the song.

Both make the song 'louder' but for different reasons.
Another fun variable on mix compression is, looking at 'what' is hitting the compressor(s). This determines (generally) what it is that punches the wholes in your mix, and might have you looking at the mix in a different way.

There's nothing like having lots of options eh?
Happy hunting.
Wayne

[Middleman]

If your seeing attack and release your using Sonars compressor/expander or dynamic processor, not the limiter. The limiter has only 2 knobs threshold and gain.

[dantell]

It is the dynamics processor. Could you tell me what you use and the exact settings to get get maximum volume on my mixes? Anyone? Thanks for all the help though. Just give me the settings you use, that work for you.
Thanks a million!!!!!!
Dantell

[Middleman]

The first thing I do on mix down, in Sonar, is to crank all my channels as hot as I can and mix it loud. I turn the speakers down of course so my cat won't start whining. Once the balance and punch ins are the way I want them I turn my focus to the stereo buss.

There are many things you can experiment with on the 2-buss. Sometimes I put a single limiter, the Cakewalk plug in, on the VMain. Set the Threshold around -21 and the gain anywhere from 0 to 3 depending on the sound your looking for.

Other times I put 2 compressors on the 2 buss. One set for fast and heavy the other set for slow and light compression. Back to back like this the first one, slow and light, can fatten up the sound. Threshold around -6, attack at 15 to 20ms, release around 100ms, ratio 3:1 and make up gain 2. Follow this with another compressor threshold around -3, .1ms attack, 2ms release, ratio around 10:1, gain 0. This one knocks off any sudden transient sounds.

These are not hard and fast settings by the way, compression and limiting is like salt and pepper. Season to taste.

This along with hot levels will punch it out hot.

If you need more or the dynamics go flat on you. You can either back off the setting on the 2 bus. Or, mix the above to a stereo file, bring it back into your software and run it through a multiband compressor and parametric EQ to master it into submission. If you really want to get excessive, after all this, you can normalize the beast. This will pack it in with few dynamics. Why would you want this though? The real art is to get as much dynamics in the mix with relatively good levels. Normalize is an extreme measure in my book.

Nothing is hard and fast here, rules-wise, but over time you kinda develop you own techniques for getting the sound you want.

Hope this helps.

[mixsit]

Middleman, in the sequence in your post I would have tended to reverse what you said, with -21 limiting being very extreme and (oops) normalizing being a gain adjustment with no compression, the least.
Yea?
Thanks
Wayne

[Middleman]

Originally posted by mixsit
Middleman, in the sequence in your post I would have tended to reverse what you said, with -21 limiting being very extreme and (oops) normalizing being a gain adjustment with no compression, the least.
Yea?
Thanks
Wayne

Yes, on a scale of 1 to 10 your right. I wasn't trying to build a hierchy of increasing tactics. Normalizing mostly occurs when I get a take just right, but the volume was too low and I want a keeper. I threw the normalizing in at the end when actually it would probably be a more granular tactic close to the recording stage.

Actually you can do any of this anywhere anytime depending on what your going after. Let me say I hate normalizing overall. It brings up the noise level as others here have pointed out before.

Regarding -21, on a hardware limiter that is extreme but it just seems to work on that software version. I have found overall that software plug ins require more extreme settings than their hardware counterparts. I get a nice warm tone out of the Cakewalk limiter at that setting. -21 is not cast in stone by the way. I also can run much lighter and much heavier if I am using the sound for effect and not just transient control.

[mixsit]

Makes sense.
Thanks again.
Wayne

[dantell]

What settings do you use for sound maximizing?