Is there such a thing?

[chessrock]

Just curious if there is such a thing as quiet, low-key cymbals (? ?)

I'm looking for hi-hats, rides, crashes, etc. that are designed more for recording that might help me get a better balance with the rest of the kit. The ideal would be something that, even when hit hard, can still sound fairly low-key, as opposed to overpowering/annoying to the ear make-me-cringe every time the crash is hit kind of thing.

And as far as hats go, I'm not necessarily looking for something dark, per se, as much as I'm looking for something not-chunky, but certainly not harsh either, and again pretty low key. I know that's asking a lot, but thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Chess

[coloradojay]

I like to use a little bit of electrical tape here and there to quiet my cymbals and remove some of the ring on cheaper ones. The great thing about electrical tape, is it doesn't leave the sticky crap behind as bad as duct tape does.

Check out the Zildian paper thin crashes- I love mine. They are a little dark, but nice and soft. I think Istanbul makes some paper thins too.

For hats, I am a big fan of the vintage A zildjians. There are tons of other brands/styles out there, but I really love the soft quality that the years of oil and dirt seem to give them. I am using a top A zildjian with a bottom heavy bronze Sabian B8 to get a better CHIK sound when closing, w/just a touch of electrical tape on the B8 so it doesn't ring. This combo also makes for a brighter sounding semi-open sloppy hat sound for apps like rock.

For rides, I like the Sabians- they have tons of varieties especially in the precise and soft categories.

Not sure how all this pertains to recording, since I'm new to that end, but I like the soft sound and that's what I do.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by coloradojay
For hats, I am a big fan of the vintage A zildjians.

Any experience at all with the K series? I've gotten a few recommendations for those.

I guess I'm pretty much trying to avoid the "chick" thing. I realize this has a lot more to do with how they're played, technique, etc., but I'm looking for a very soft "tsss." Right now, I tend to get a little "tsss," and a lot of "chunk," "tsssump," and the occasional "kkksssrackelshump."

I'm thinking I should really look at what the jazz and adult contemporary artists are using. That would kind of be the model.

[M.Brane]

Here's a cool page on the basics of cymbals.

The biggest factor on volume is the size. Bigger=louder.

[coloradojay]

Originally posted by chessrock

I guess I'm pretty much trying to avoid the "chick" thing. Right now, I tend to get a little "tsss," and a lot of "chunk," "tsssump," and the occasional "kkksssrackelshump."

LOL <(c;

K's are nice, but a hand hammered cymbal like that just has a different sound than a machine hammered like the A's ("darker overtones" I think describes it). I think that the Istanbul made Mehmet, Agop, or Bosphorous cymbals are probably a better value if you A/B them with the K's, but they are kinda hard to find. There is an interesting artical here that touches on them here:

http://www.drumweb.com/bob3.shtml

Another thought you might experement with is sizzle rivets (some company have a thing that you can add on to the top of a ride that sorta folds on and off so you don't have to drill, or buy predrilled cymbals). Some guys use rivets on their bottom hat. They are definitly cool for a soft jazz-ride esp in tunes played with brushes- light ballads and stuff.

BTW- M.Brane's link is a good one too. I've never seen that site before.

[coloradojay]

On second thought, maybe if you try running the tracks through an ART toob pre for warmth and a Behringer mixer for some EQing.....

<oc;

LMAO@me!!!

[dr.colossus]

aw shit, i just started a new thread on basically the same question! as far a hats go, perhaps 13"hats could deliver the sound your after

[chessrock]

What about 10" ?

[theletterq]

Sabian has "Studio" models in their various series, which are basically just light weight versions.

The only other option is thin, smaller diameter cymbals. I would go with 14" thin crashes and 13" lighter weight hi-hats. Zildjian K's will give you a darker, clunkier sound, although the K Custom rides deliver a very nice and pleasing, low-key "ping" with hardly any build-up.

10" hi-hats would be a little too "low-key" in my opinion. They are generally reserved for special effects/alternative options and for reproduced "electronic" music.

Lastly, you really need a drummer that can balance the cymbals with the rest of the kit to get an ideal sound. When recording bands off the street, this can be a major ordeal.

Good luck....

[coloradojay]

I've never seen 10" hats except on a little kids set (and they were crappy). I know that there are definitly some varieties of 13s around though.

Anyone have a link to any 10" hats?

[theletterq]

I'm pretty sure Sabian makes some, and I know that they make 12". Other than that, any cymbals can be used for hi-hats. I know a guy that uses a more medium splash with a heavier one for 12" auxillary hats.

[coloradojay]

theletterq, That's a good point about using crashes/splashes for hats.

I saw a hammer dulcimer player last year, sitting in with Stanley Jordan, who broke out this tiny jungle kit with like a 6 in snare and kick, with 2 splashes and a tiny set of high hats, that must have been like 6s or 8s, and I assume that they were splashes too. It had a funky-cool sound, and definitly relied on micing for sound reinforcement because it couldn't have had much natural sound at all.

I guess you could probably special order any size you want from a factory like Sabian too.

[Tim Brown]

Hi Chessrock,

I definitely love thin cymbals. They react quickly, and just seem more musical to me. The flip side of that, is taht I don't like "little" cymbals....I use mostly 18"- 20" crashes.

You definitely want to keep the bottom hat thicker for more of a solid "chick" sound. I use sound-edges, but I am not a big fan of them. I'm going to switch to Paiste's Dark-Crisp hi-hats.

Definitely think "thin" for cymbals.

Smaller diameter cymbals generally change the pitch, but not necessarily the volume, unless you go for really tiny (12", 14" etc.)..and if you do go that small, they will sound a little funny with a standard sized drumkit.


Tim

[erichenryus]

try lighter wood tip sticks to tame the hihats and tell the guy to stop hitting them so hard .