Lyric advice .....

[bpoco]

I've tried to search for an answer to this question in this forum, but haven't come across anything that pertains.

If I post lyrics on this BBS - looking for help to an elusive phrase or couplet - AND someone posts the perfect line(s) and I use them, does that give them co-writer "rights"?

Ignorantly,

BPOCO

[Jagular]

That’s kind of a gray area. For me personally, I would love to help someone out with minor things in a song. If it’s a major rewrite, that’s a different story. Tough one to call.

[scottboyher]

Originally posted by bpoco
I've tried to search for an answer to this question in this forum, but haven't come across anything that pertains.

If I post lyrics on this BBS - looking for help to an elusive phrase or couplet - AND someone posts the perfect line(s) and I use them, does that give them co-writer "rights"?

Ignorantly,

BPOCO

That is a great question. I would say if ever the song became a seller expect someone to pay you a visit. That is just the way things are now. It sucks that you can't just help to help because you always have to cover your own ass no matter what.. The bad part of posting things is you have them in writing!

[tanlith]

Bottom line:

If it doesn't hold a formal copyright it doesn't belong to anyone. (Contrary to popular belief)

It all comes down to who can proove it's thiers ... and the proof had better be on paper.

My advice: draw up a contract. Doesn't matter if it's on toilet paper... if it's signed and witnessed it's legal.

If you want more details on copyright then visit The US Copyright Office Online and read read read.

If you find any of it confusing, cut and past the section in question and send it to me, I'll be happy to translate.

- Tanlith -

[tanlith]

Originally posted by scottboyher
That is a great question. I would say if ever the song became a seller expect someone to pay you a visit. That is just the way things are now. It sucks that you can't just help to help because you always have to cover your own ass no matter what.. The bad part of posting things is you have them in writing!

Actually if I posted lyrics here I would have a VERY strong case in court (Provided Dragon was willing to allow these files to be copied as evidence) Even if someone legally copyrights it AFTER I post, I can rebut with this forum as evidence that the lyrics existed prior to the copyright date... however, since a copyright is (supposed to be) irrefutable, I would likely be reduced to sharing the royalties (I'm not positive on this, it would actually depend on how good your lawyer is)

- Tanlith -

[scottboyher]

Originally posted by tanlith
Actually if I posted lyrics here I would have a VERY strong case in court (Provided Dragon was willing to allow these files to be copied as evidence) Even if someone legally copyrights it AFTER I post, I can rebut with this forum as evidence that the lyrics existed prior to the copyright date... however, since a copyright is (supposed to be) irrefutable, I would likely be reduced to sharing the royalties (I'm not positive on this, it would actually depend on how good your lawyer is)

- Tanlith -

True, but that works both ways. Anyone that helped you write a line would have proof too.

[bpoco]

Tanlith,

I did some reading at lunch and from what I gather, any contributions made in this forum (and ultimately used) could be considered "co-writing". While there weren't any web-forum examples, there were similar examples given. For example, your publisher offering a lyric suggestion. While not typical, it wouldn't be out of the question for the publisher to request a writing credit.

Additionally, without a contract between the orignal author and contributing author (in our case, other posters), the co-writing/ownership rights can get allocated 50/50 !!!!! - regardless of who wrote what portion. My suspicion is that with the right set of lawyers, just about anything could happen.

For now, I'm going to assume that any lyric help I ask for is going to potentially create a "co-writing situation".

All IMHO,

BPOCO

[tanlith]

Additionally, without a contract between the orignal author and contributing author (in our case, other posters), the co-writing/ownership rights can get allocated 50/50 !!!!! - regardless of who wrote what portion. My suspicion is that with the right set of lawyers, just about anything could happen.
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I think I know a way around this, but we'd need to get the Webmaster here involved...

Basicly it could work like this (A lot of work, but might be worth it for all of us to REALLY contribute to one another's work FREE -- at least that's what I thought this was all about??)

(1) Set up a new Forum strictly dedicated colaboration for song writers & lyrics

(2) Make a LEGAL electronic signature system... (like on ANY site where you have to sign up for something... "By clicking here you agree to..." etc...)

(3) to keep it completely legal, require (secured) credit card info... no actual charge, just verification of age.

(4) The webmaster of course would have a disclaimer absolving himself of someone using mom or dad's credit card (heh )

(5) To make it work right, the person who starts the thread "owns" the final product and is free to copyright it at his/her leisure.

(6) We'd REALLY need to think this through in such a way as to completely protect the individual seeking help.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be more than happy to throw out a few good lines under those circumstances... I don't need cash or my name on the CD... it'd be cool to one day hear a song hit it big and know (even if I'm the only one) that I was the one who solved the problem with that weird rhyme in the chorus.

This kind of project might require a Music Business Lawyer... if so, I'd be willing to pitch in a few bucks to pay him to write up the Electronic "Agreement".... What do you all think?

(Maybe someone should start a new thread and set it up as a vote thing??)

- Tanlith -