Caution! Bluegrass inside...

[pdlstl]

I've finally been able to get all of my PC-based recording gear to play nice and have become farily adept with the software.

So.....I'm posting a link here if any of you folks would like to hear a bit of the CD project I'm working on with my BG band.

We're all pretty new to the bluegrass scene but we're learning.

I more interested in feedback regarding the sound, mix etc. than the critique of the actual performance.

If you don't mind, please follow the link and have a listen. I prefer the "clip" rather than the "full" version because I mixed the clip a bit different. It's hard to mix down on good studio monitors and then try to anticipate what it will sound like on home/auto CD players or computer speakers.

Please let me know what you think could be done to improve the sonic quality of these MP3's.

If you don't care for bluegrass, please don't hammer me. Just don't listen..... :-)

Thanks,

Earl

http://www.earlclark.com/mp3/texas.htm

[Kramer]

I dig it man.I would try and bring the instruments forward a little bit to make the performance more intimate.Bluegrass is one of the true forms of music where the instruments should be in your face kinda like you are inthe same room with the payers IMHO....the reverb is a little too much on the vocal.I know,I know,it sounds a lot like the big hall reverb sound of the Grand Ole opry, but it just seems a little too wet to me.

Is there any reverb on the guitar,mandolin and banjo?They dont seem to be up front as they should be for some reason or another.

I listened to the FULL length clip if that helps at all.I'll take a listen to the short clip and see if I notice any diffrence.

Nice performance.

[pdlstl]

Thank you.

The reverb is just a wash with Ozone. I thought it was a bit wet as well so, I'll try backing off the reverb and see how it sounds.

Will try bringing the banjo, guitar and mando up a little as well.

Thanks again,

Earl

[alexspetty]

i am a huge fan of blue grass... i really dig what youve done here. awesome stuff.

-Alex

[Jagular]

Nice stuff. I listened to all three. I liked the sound of the second clip the best. I think that sounded very good. Great picking going on there too. Are those crowd noises real? If not I would probably opt to leave them out.

That was a great listen.

[pdlstl]

Thanks for the nice comments. This is the first time I've ever recorded anything from the "injuneers" seat. I spent many years on the other side of the glass as a session pedal steel player. I'm playing mando and singing on this.

Oh heck no, the crowd noises are definitely not real (real, but not to the event). This was recorded in my living room. The crowd was just an exercise in learning what the software (SONAR2.2)will do. They won't be on the finished product.

I'm enclosing a pic of my humble studio.

Will post more in the future. I can only learn from those who understand this better than I do.

Thanks,

Earl

[mixmkr]

I think the instruments sound pretty decent, albeit a litte reverby. The crowd noises I think would work, but the get cut off after the solos very quickly, and are a tad loud all the time too. I think the reverb definately matches the crowd size though

I think backing off the reverb just a smidgen, and you'll have a pretty good mix.

[Jagular]

Originally posted by pdlstl

I'm enclosing a pic of my humble studio.

hehe...looks a lot nicer than mine . I'll trade you straight up for any one of your axes for my Ovation Celebrity

[mixmkr]

I wanna know if I buy one of those cheap ass dobros and banjos from musicians friend, if they'll be ok for recording and occasional use (for this aging rock and roller)

[bpoco]

I thought both clips sounded pretty good. Each had it's strong points.

The first clip (with more reverb) had a better live feel - if that's what you were going for - and it fit better with the audience effects. Sounded like it could have been recorded from a stage performance.

The second clip was much cleaner. I preferred this version. However, the audience didn't fit and sounded artificial becase the recording was "too" clean. I would also prefer to the vocal come up a little hotter in the mix.

BPOCO

[BobOC]

Earl...

Very nicely done! I listened to the second choice...the "clip." Sounds great. I would agree with the previous posts re: the reverb on the vocal. Probably needs to be backed off a bit. Also, the mando lead, as you mentioned, should come up in volume. I think the banjo and the mando "chop" rhythm sound good.

I, too, am a newbie to bluegrass. Some local guys found out that I play the bass, so they recruited me into their Monday evening jam sessions and occasional gigs. In fact, we have a gig this coming Saturday night, at a local Boy Scouts dinner!

I'm attaching a link to my IUMA site for you...two of the songs, "Love In My Life" and "After You Left" include mandolin (played by my friend Jim), and "After You Left" also features banjo (played by my friend Jeff). Thought you might want to hear how I mix the stuff.

Again, nice job on your tune.

http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/BobOC/

[bdbdbuck]

pdlstl,
I listened to the full version.
I like this stuff man! Keep em comin.


bd

[Treeline]

Good voice for this style; get those other two harmonies in the chorus and you'll be giving people goosebumps. Nice rhythm going on, as well. I find that's so much harder than I ever thought it would be. The percussive mandolin is good. I'd echo the others on this thread; drop the vocal reverb a bit, maybe pull the guitar forward a tad - and lose the crowds. Might think about starting with some kind of flourish, maybe a couple of inversions with the banjo, rather than a boom-chuck.

Wanna collaborate sometime?

[dtb]

man, now we be talking. that's great. you guys got the thang going on. ??????? What kinda mando you playing? Sounds super.
More, more, more.

dtb

[dtb]

hey Earl, my wife's impressed. She's been listening to my half-assed bluegrass music, with my buds, for nealy 30 years. Now she knows bluegrass. And she was really impressed at your clips. Get your stuff together and put up some more tunz.

[pdlstl]

Wow!

I really didn't expect the such a positive response. I was unsure if it was even close to being right after listening to it for so long. Thanks to all!

Will definitely work on that reverb. A newbie mistake. Wanted it to sound too lush.....grrrrrrr.

BTW, this was all recorded with:

SONAR 2.2
Ozone 2
CoolEdit 2000
Audio Technica 4033 and 4041 (tracked)
Mackie 1202 VLZ-Pro
Delta 44

If you'll check the site over the next few days, I'll be putting up some more songs. One of them will have a nice dobro on it.

dtb, a '99 Flatiron Festival F.

Treeline, better let me get a little more under my belt. But keep me in mind.

Thanks again to all,

Earl

[crawdad]

Earl, This is good stuff performance-wise. I dug the singing and the playing. The verb and crowd are way too much. I'd say, just listen to a few good bluegrass CD's that were studio projects and use that as your model. This sounds like a live auditorium recording. Hey, but you almost fooled me for a minute. Then, I realised I have that same crowd sample here--knew it was familiar!

Tell you the truth, I'm not sure how they record bluegrass--if they use one central mic or mic everything separate--or maybe both, so they can mix up a solo where needed. I would think that the room sound would be very important as good acoustics augments good acoustic instrument sounds.

On another note, I'd love to talk to you a bit about pedal steel sometime. I need some good advice from a pro like you.

[theron]

Hey Earl,

Those vox surely have that "high and lonesome sound that bluegrass music requires" aka Robert Earl Keen.

I wasn't a fan of the canned audience. Not that it didn't sound good but, if you take it away, it definately effects the overall mix.

I'd push the vox up a bit in general.

Nice damn pickin' from all fronts and an impressive reflection of the wood sound from all instruments.


Nice listen sir.


Peace,
Theron.

[powderfinger]

pdlstl,

sounds good man. i'll echo everything that was said so far in terms of reverb and crowd. also, i had a random question for you, so check your PM box, i'm getting ready to send you one.

[scottboyher]

Very well done! I don't have much to add to what has already been said.. This is awsome.. Wish I could do this kinda stuff...

[crawdad]

hey Earl--check this thread out. It directly pertains to our discussion.

http://www.home-recording.com/bbs/sh...threadid=77328

[pdlstl]

Thanks crawdad!

That's some great mic info. I used the 4033 on everything (vox/instruments) except the banjo. On it, I used the 4041.

Right now all I have to choose from is:

4033 (2)
4041
CAD E-100
SM 57

Would any of these worked better than what I used?

Thanks,

Earl

[crawdad]

Well, the 4033 is such a versatile mic, I think you made a good choice. After reading the thread I mentioned, I'd like to hear what the SM 57 sounds like on the banjo. It might be real cool for that application.

If I was you, recording bluegrass, I'd pick up a couple small diaphragm condensers--either the Oktava 012's or a par of the MXL 603's. They are supposed to be damn close to each other in sound quality. I also liked Harvey's suggestion of the ECM 8000 on the bass. You can get one of those for under $40 bucks so thats a no-brainer there!

Are you doing this as a one man band, or are there other musicians coming over?

[chrisharris]

This is a diamond in the rough...but it definitely is a diamond. I just can't wait to hear you slap some backup vocals on this. I like your voice a ton, but the vocal on the short clip (new mix) seems a little lower than I'd like. Everything else sounded great except the fake crowd, lol.

I already like this a lot...it's your voice. Now record it about 3-5 more times in intervals of roughly 1/3, 1/5, 1/7th, etc. Yeah, harmonies are gonna' be sweeeeeet on this.

[pdlstl]

crawdad - Although I do some things (mostly bluegrass/gospel) where I play everything except banjo, this is a bluegrass band that I've put together. We've been together a very short time. This tune is one of six that we've recorded. The original purpose was to take 45 second clips of each song and crossfade in and out of them for a demo CD which will be used for booking purposes.

Also, I thought the 4041 (which was used on the banjo) is a small condenser. Help me learn.....

chris - Thanks for the nice comments on my vocals! I spent many years singing hard-core traditional country and the hardest thing I've had to learn about singing bluegrass is to dump the vibrato. Since there's not much vibrato in BG, it tends to make a very honest singer out of you. No vibrato to cover slight pitch issues.

Earl