Help, sequence out of tune after a loop

Pedullist · #1 02-06-2003

Hey there! I was wondering if I was the only one with the following problem:

When I'm using a Dxi (any softsynth) in combination with a loop in Homestudio2002, the sequence shifts out of tune after the loop has finished and has started again. Yes, I'm using legal software. Any idea what could be the problem? Or is this normal behaviour?

BluesMeister · #2 02-06-2003

Quote:

Hey there! I was wondering if I was the only one with the following problem

No, you're not alone Pedullist. I had something similar that I posted about a few weeks ago regarding tempo & looping anomalies with HS2002.

When I clicked on the change tempo ratio button, the pitch changed so that my MIDI file sounded like a vinyl record speeded up. I know this isn't supposed to happen in the digital domain, but there it was.

When I changed the tempo back to 1:1 it made no difference, the pitch & tempo were still raised. I had to quit HS2002 and reload to get back to normal.

So far no one has been able to tell me why, not here and not on the CakeWalk newsgroup for HS2002. Maybe we've stumbled on a <gasp> BUG!

When looping I noticed that the first couple of notes had the raised tempo & pitch before they settled back down to normal. I've given tearing out my hair

So, you Sonar/U2/B52 (or whatever

) users, is this confined to HS2002???

--
BluesMeister

Pedullist · #3 02-07-2003

I'm not tempted to mail Cakewalk support about this. I'm a bit fed up with their kind of 'support'.

How's support for Sonar?

Pedullist · #4 02-07-2003

Your problem sounds familiar, btw. Although I remember experiencing something like that when I was still using Cakewalk 9 and a soundblaster Audigy (with the first, crappy, drivers)

What soundcard do you use?

BluesMeister · #5 02-07-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Pedullist
What soundcard do you use?

Terratec EWX 24/96 with the latest WDM drivers.

--
BluesMeister

acidrock · #6 02-08-2003

If you click on clip properties for the loop in question and click the groove clip tab,do you have "follow project pitch" enabled?

Pedullist · #7 02-08-2003

We're talking midi controlled Dxi's here, not (audio) groove clips...but thanks for your help anyway Acidrock

acidrock · #8 02-08-2003

Still,there is a follow pitch box in Sonar on the markers toolbar that may influnce the pitch of a Midi loop you may want to try changing that to see if it could be the culprit.

Pedullist · #9 03-05-2003

Finally got the time to test this, Bluesmeister...same problem here. Indeed, the sound of a record player losing power, or getting a power overdose

Weird. I think the raised pitch after a loop and this problem are related.

Of course I've tested it with the almighty SONAR demo and it doesn't happen in SONAR. Why doesn't this come as a surprise?

I believe the tempo ratio buttons are meant for midi use only (well, you can read it in the helpfile). Since DXí's are midi controlled audio, the buttons should be greyed out in HS2002. And they are greyed out in SONAR, but not it HS2002. In other words: you just shouldn't use them with DXi's!

You are talking about midi controlled DXis too, I hope?

AlChuck · #10 03-05-2003

Look in the event list for leftover tempo change events.

Pedullist · #11 03-05-2003

Nothing there...

Thanks for thinking with us, Alchuck!

Pedullist · #12 03-05-2003

Bump, especially for Bluesmeister...(did you check your PM?)

BluesMeister · #13 03-05-2003

I checked my PM Pedullist, my man. Now we both know each other's real names

That was me posting to the wonderfully helpful Cakewalk HS2002 user's newsgroup.

Problem exists.
Problem NOT solved

CakeWalk not interested.

Yes, I was using a DXi. So maybe your theory is correct after all, it's an audio problem. We need to have an independent third party try the same thing with a Creative card to see what transpires.

Step forward one volunteer

--
BluesMeister

Pedullist · #14 03-06-2003

Errrr, I have a Creative card.

I'm having a nice conversation in the newsgroup with David White. To be clear: I've skipped your problem, because it isn't really a problem in my opinon (just ignore those tempting tempo ratio buttons!). SONAR disables them as soon as 'it' (she? he?) detects audiotracks or synchonisation bits that are turned on. I admit: they should build this check in HS2002 also, but I doubt if they ever do.

So now I'm concentrating on the 'sequence out of tune after a loop' problem. Could you, Terractec card owner, check this out for me too? Just record a pattern involving a DXi and loop it.

I did a couple of more tests, and it only occurs sometimes. Other times it drops out before even getting to the second run (at the end of the sequence)

I'm almost sure it has something to with the latency compensation.

Pedullist · #15 03-06-2003

Hey, this is funny:

As long as there's some other audio playing in the background (continuously), the pitch of the loop stays the same and no dropout occurs. Weeeeeeeird.

BluesMeister · #16 03-06-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Pedullist
Errrr, I have a Creative card.

Well bust my boiler! There was I thinking you had an Inca88 - am I confusing you with the good Mr Moskus? So are you looping using a DXi or are you using the Creative's on-board GM wavetable synthesis?

Quote:

I'm having a nice conversation in the newsgroup with David White.

I've seen his name numerous times on that NG, but he steered well clear of my problem. I haven't bothered with the CakeWalk news group since that last reply of mine, they don't seem to know or care - I'm not sure which.

Quote:

I've skipped your problem, because it isn't really a problem in my opinon

Well, as a Terratec owner, I often like to loop through a MIDI passage while I work out some guitar that fits, so to have this record player-effect (speeding up and slowing down) certainly is a problem. The Tempo thing I can live without, but the looping is very important.

Quote:

I did a couple of more tests, and it only occurs sometimes. Other times it drops out before even getting to the second run (at the end of the sequence) I'm almost sure it has something to with the latency compensation.

Well I've got the latest WDM drivers so latency shouldn't be an issue with the Terratec. I've only got 128MB of RAM - and I originally thought that may be the source of the problem, however I think I can now rule that out. I really though Mr Brzilian would have stepped in here, he's another HS2002 user.

--
BluesMeister

Pedullist · #17 03-06-2003

See the post above your one...it's perhaps a workaround for you. Just import a little drumloop and the problem is fixed (and a drumloop when practicing is never a bad thing)

Pedullist · #18 03-06-2003

Quote:

Well, as a Terratec owner, I often like to loop through a MIDI passage while I work out some guitar that fits, so to have this record player-effect (speeding up and slowing down) certainly is a problem.

From the SONAR help file:

Note: Tempo ratios can only be used in projects that contain no audio tracks and cannot be used when using any form of synchonization.

Sorry, but it isn't possible in combination with DXi's (because it's audio). You'll have to use midi to work it out.

BluesMeister · #19 03-06-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Pedullist
Sorry, but it isn't possible in combination with DXi's (because it's audio). You'll have to use midi to work it out.

Well my DXi requires an audio track to play MIDI tracks. So the upshot is The Tempo Button Aint Gonna Work in HS2002

And Looping MIDI tracks is almost unusable.

Major bummer dude

--
A very blue BluesMeister

Pedullist · #20 03-06-2003

...and buying SONAR won't help you either. Except for the looping bug.

Well, I shall report the looping bug to Cakewalk support also. Strength in numbers!

Pedullist · #21 03-06-2003

OK, for everyone who thought Bluesmeister was hallucinating or actually someone from 'the real' Star Trek (the truth is out there, you know

) : here's a sample of the problem he described (with of course a spacy sound).

http://www.home.zonnet.nl/trojkacontact/Sample.mp3

How wonderful.

moskus · #22 03-06-2003

Very nice sound...

guttadaj · #23 03-06-2003

Another HS2002 user here - figured I'd chime in. I noticed this problem as well when looping on some MIDI drums I was sending to VSC DXi. It keeps speeding up and creeping up in tone until I eventually get a DropOut.

I will definitely have to try having some audio in the background to see if that fixes it like Pedullist mentioned. That would be sweet, although if it would just work right in the first place, that would be the best. I'm getting more and more frustrated (and feeling forced into getting SONAR) as I run into and hear about all the problems existing in HomeStudio that are fixed in SONAR.

-Jeff

moskus · #24 03-06-2003

What soundcard do you have?

Pedullist · #25 03-06-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by guttadaj
Another HS2002 user here - figured I'd chime in. I noticed this problem as well when looping on some MIDI drums I was sending to VSC DXi. It keeps speeding up and creeping up in tone until I eventually get a DropOut. I will definitely have to try having some audio in the background to see if that fixes it like Pedullist mentioned. That would be sweet, although if it would just work right in the first place, that would be the best. I'm getting more and more frustrated (and feeling forced into getting SONAR) as I run into and hear about all the problems existing in HomeStudio that are fixed in SONAR.

-Jeff

I know how you feel Jeff! Hey, what kind of problems did you encounter?

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