Mixing Down crash

[RetroMan]

Well, I got rid of my crackles and pops with the help of the fine experts on here and everything has been sounding just magnificent, but now something else is giving me trouble
When I try to 'mix down' all the tracks, it starts, goes to the status bar (showing the progress in a blue percentage bar as it writes the tracks) and just as it hits 100% I get that message everyone dreads - This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down in which it proceeds to do
Does it automatically write two tracks for the mix down?
I'm selecting a fully blank track with another blank right next to it
thinking that is uses them both (stereo) there might be something I haven't ticked and it's crashing because it can't handle it or something?!?

Just a reminder that I'm using Cakewalk Professional 7 (yes I know it's old)

Thanks in advance

[moskus]

Are you using any realtime effects? (If I remember correctly, PA7 does support realtime effects, right?)

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by RetroMan

Does it automatically write two tracks for the mix down?
I'm selecting a fully blank track with another blank right next to it
thinking that is uses them both (stereo) there might be something I haven't ticked and it's crashing because it can't handle it or something?!?

I'm not familiar with PA7, but I don't know what you mean about selecting two tracks.

Doesn't PA7 write stereo tracks? A stereo track is just a single track, but with a left and right waveform. Have you tried just mixing down to a single (stereo) track?

Why don't you also try an "external mixdown." I don't know what they called it in PA7, but something like "export to wave." See if you still have the problem this way.

[DS_Sultan]

If memory serves, PA7 has the 'bounce to track' feature and an 'export to wave' feature. I suppose I could load mine and check. But the others are rigjht, if the one does not work then try the other.

Another thing to consider is that there is a problem at the end of your file. Have you done any system maintanance, or a clean audio disk? Someimes there are 'bits' of waves that get left at the end of a track after editing, or an effect that will cause this. Have you zoomed way in at the end of your tracks to see if there is anything hiding there?

An additional thing you can try in troubleshooting what is going on, it to archive your tracks, then one by one de-archive them and try the mixdown again. This will help you isolate which track is actually causing the issue for you. Warning: do not just MUTE the track, it will still get processed, you just won't hear anything. You must archive it to take it out of the mix.

Good luck.

[RetroMan]

Originally posted by 'king' moskus
Are you using any realtime effects? (If I remember correctly, PA7 does support realtime effects, right?)

yes, I'm using a Cakewalk realtime effect (chorus) on one track - do I have to bounce that to another track and record it with the effect? maybe that's what's causing the problem?

Originally posted by dachayI'm not familiar with PA7, but I don't know what you mean about selecting two tracks.

Doesn't PA7 write stereo tracks? A stereo track is just a single track, but with a left and right waveform. Have you tried just mixing down to a single (stereo) track?

yeah I didn't explain it properly - it seems to mix down to two tracks (one extreme left and one extreme right waveforms)
maybe I need to work out how to record in into a single track with two waveforms

Why don't you also try an "external mixdown." I don't know what they called it in PA7, but something like "export to wave." See if you still have the problem this way.

Yes I tried this! PA7 has 'export to wave' like you mentioned and it works ok but it doesn't seem to sound or turn out how it sounded in the final mix some tracks appear softer and get almost drowned out.

Originally posted by DS_Sultan
Another thing to consider is that there is a problem at the end of your file. Have you done any system maintanance, or a clean audio disk? Someimes there are 'bits' of waves that get left at the end of a track after editing, or an effect that will cause this. Have you zoomed way in at the end of your tracks to see if there is anything hiding there?

Good thinking - I checked it out with the zoom function and there's no bits on the end. The end will actually fade out, but I was going to do that after I convert it to a stereo wave file and use cool edit to fade out

Originally posted by DS_Sultan
An additional thing you can try in troubleshooting what is going on, it to archive your tracks, then one by one de-archive them and try the mixdown again. This will help you isolate which track is actually causing the issue for you. Warning: do not just MUTE the track, it will still get processed, you just won't hear anything. You must archive it to take it out of the mix.

I think I'll try recording another multi track session just as a test and see if that mixes down ok - if it does, then it must be some conflict in the file I'm working on currently - I hope not i've got it sounding sweet!

I'm sorry for using such an old release of Cakewalk and getting everyone to strain their brains, going back in time to remember how it works.It's just all I have at the moment and I quite like the overall interface, and it seems to work ok, it's just a few bugs that I need to sort out

[Teacher]

upgrade to homestudio it doesn't cost that much....

[DS_Sultan]

I would still suggest trying to archive the tracks and seeing which track is the offending one. It will go much quicker than re-recording a multi track project.

[moskus]

I don't think PA7 supports track-archiving.

[DS_Sultan]

Now Moskus, don't make me load it up to find out! I was sure that was in 7, I know it's in 8 and above. I started with V6 myself. But 7-Sonar I still got.

Well, if 7 does NOT support track archiving then you can still find out which track is the offending track by moving that track data way out past the point of failure then trying your mixdown, then if it fails at the same place, it wasn't that track.

This of course is assuming that your tracks are not clips. But you should still be able to identify the offending track.

Or, make a copy of the project by doing a 'save as' under a new name, then cutting the tracks one at a time till you find the bad one. This way you don't hurt the original project but still figure out which track to fix. Be carefull not to delete nay waves from the system during this. In fact, you should save the project as a bundle, then you will have a master copy of it and you can do whatever you need to find the track, such as deleting track by track to find the bad one.

OK, ramble mode off now. hehehee... just tryin to help.

[Charlie]

I had the same problem with CPA 9. The solution is to destructively apply the effects from the inserts to the tracks/clips. There should be no effects in the inserts after you're done. Then mix down to or export to audio

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by Charlie
I had the same problem with CPA 9. The solution is to destructively apply the effects from the inserts to the tracks/clips. There should be no effects in the inserts after you're done. Then mix down to or export to audio

Sorry, but that shouldn't be necessary. You should be able to mix down with realtime effects.

If you meant to do this as a test, then it might not be a bad idea. To see if the problem is being caused by the effects.


Retroman, if the export to wave doesn't sound like the original mix, you've got some other problems going on. Export to Wave, and Bounce to Track are going to give you essentially the same thing (just one will be inside Sonar and the other outside Sonar). Also, if you plan to finalize it in Cool Edit, you really should be exporting to wave anyway.

You need to figure out why the export doesn't sound like the mix. Are you including all the tracks? Also, make sure it isn't just a volume difference issue.

[RetroMan]

Thanks people! I've got a lot of ideas and things to try out and work with now, and I've got the whole weekend free, so I'm sure I'll sort this thing out one way or another

I'll let you know how I go

[RetroMan]

SORTED!

I isolated and found the culprit track which was causing the crash - I tried editing and doing stuff to it but it wouldn't fix it, so I ended up re-recording it and it solved the problem!!
I have no idea why the track was causing the problem, must've been a gremlin in there somewhere!

thanks you the help everyone!

[DS_Sultan]

OK, so splain what it is you did to sort it out then?

Enquiering minds want to know!

[RetroMan]

Originally posted by DS_Sultan
OK, so splain what it is you did to sort it out then?

Enquiering minds want to know!

OK it wasn't easy, and there's probably a more logical way to find the problem, but I started with all the tracks on screen and one by one, delete them, trying a 'mixdown' after every track deletion, until i'm able to do the mixdown without a crash.
once it mixes down with no crash, I backtrack at random to find the offending track, kill it, then re-record it

[dachay2tnr]

Now what you should do - assuming you still have a copy - is take a close look at the offending track. See if you can figure out what about that track was causing the problem. If it has an plugin on it, delete the plugin and see if you can still mix down. Same with an envelope. etc. etc.

This could help you avoid the same problem in the future.

[DS_Sultan]

I agree, you need to look closely at the track causing the crash to understand WHY it was causing the crash.

[postalblue]

but what could be causing such a thing? i have a similar problem.
back in the days when i used cakewalk (up until last week ), i never experienced this kind of stuff. never a single glitch during mixdown. of course i only did like 15 songs until i upgraded to sonar, but i never had a problem until now with sonar.

[DS_Sultan]

Could be one or more of many things.

The wave file on the track is corrupt, an effect on the track, an envelope on the track, the output patch that is seleected, an aux bus patch that has a bad effect, automation on the track, etc...

This is why knowing what is wrong is so critical to preventing it again!

[dachay2tnr]

Posdtalblue - the bottom line is that Sonar is a lot more sophisticated product than PA9. Slip-editing, input monitoring, FX envelopes, looping, etc., are all things that didn't exist in PA9. Sometimes in using the new features, you may inadvertently create a conflict.

All we're saying, is try and figure out where the conflict is. More often than not, it stems from user error. So it helps to train the user, no?

[postalblue]

the bad thing is i'm not really using any of that yet. i just tried to do a mixdown because when i tried to bounce a vst instrument track to audio, it crashed. then i tried a mixdown, and it crashed too. i haven't really used any effects, automation or anything like that. i'm guessing it's the vst instruments that are causing this. i'll try to mixdown a project without the synths, and see what happens. i'll also try the method mentioned above. but as moskus mentioned in another thread, the native instruments b4 has a patch correcting a problem similar to this. i'll have to check it out later when i have access to the registration number.

[dachay2tnr]

That's sort of exactly what I was saying. DXi's and VSTi's didn't exist in the Cakewalk product line until Sonar. So you couldn't have had the problem with PA9.

[moskus]

Here ya go, Postal: http://www.nativeinstruments.de/inde...d=updatesb4_us

[postalblue]

yes, sorry, dachay, i see your point. the vst adapter was so easy to install and make work that i forgot the vst instruments are not native to sonar.

moskus, thanks for the link. i'll download the patch.

[RetroMan]

Originally posted by dachay2tnr
it helps to train the user, no?

you're all certainly doing a great job of doing that too!! I praise the day I found this BBS I would be totally screwed without the help I'm gaining from the great folks on here.

I wont forget you guys when I'm up there with Rick Rubin or Mutt Lange or Martin Birch........oh....oh *raises head, yawns and rubs eyes* sorry I was having a bit of a day dream there he he