guitar and bass questions

[dobro]

I've got a few questions, but they don't seem to need separate threads.

Bass - I've just switched to flatwounds, and not only do I like the sound and feel, but they're far easier on my nails (which I use for playing guitar), which is great. But my music shop, which is pretty big, had only, like, one set of flatwounds in the whole place. Are flatwounds that rare? Why? What do you use? Why?

Bass - this is a recording question. Why is it, the more bass I put on the tone control on the instrument, the smaller the waveform is when I record? So I have to turn up the gain. Why should a bassier setting produce less signal?

Guitar - I've got a Monster bass cable (yeah, I know - Monster sucks cuz it's too expensive). One reason I bought it was because it claimed to have been designed for bass especially. When I asked the salesman what that was about, he smiled and talked for a while, but made no sense at all, so he didn't know. Okay, two questions: are 'bass cables' really better for bass? and second question: I can use the same cable for guitar, but would I do better to be using a 'guitar' cable?

[clifchamb]

Originally posted by dobro
I've got a few questions, but they don't seem to need separate threads.

Bass - I've just switched to flatwounds, and not only do I like the sound and feel, but they're far easier on my nails (which I use for playing guitar), which is great. But my music shop, which is pretty big, had only, like, one set of flatwounds in the whole place. Are flatwounds that rare? Why? What do you use? Why?

Bass - this is a recording question. Why is it, the more bass I put on the tone control on the instrument, the smaller the waveform is when I record? So I have to turn up the gain. Why should a bassier setting produce less signal?

Guitar - I've got a Monster bass cable (yeah, I know - Monster sucks cuz it's too expensive). One reason I bought it was because it claimed to have been designed for bass especially. When I asked the salesman what that was about, he smiled and talked for a while, but made no sense at all, so he didn't know. Okay, two questions: are 'bass cables' really better for bass? and second question: I can use the same cable for guitar, but would I do better to be using a 'guitar' cable?

As far as flat wounds are, they just are not very popular. I prefer round woulds but my fingers are used to them. Flat wounds limit your technique and sounds you can get on the bass, if you want to slap,pop or tap you can forget about using flat wounds. that is probably why not many companies make them anymore.

As far as your signal, I don't know. Are you using a compressor? At least you are compensation for getting a low signal, after all, all that matters is getting a good sound to your recording.

I use a monster bass cable and I cannot really telll the differnece in sound. I like monster cables because they are of good quality and if they break, the music stores willreplace them since they are guarenteed for life.

As far as using them for guitar I would try recording guitar with both kinds to see or hear if there really is a difference.

clif

[clifchamb]

Originally posted by dobro
I've got a few questions, but they don't seem to need separate threads.

Bass - I've just switched to flatwounds, and not only do I like the sound and feel, but they're far easier on my nails (which I use for playing guitar), which is great. But my music shop, which is pretty big, had only, like, one set of flatwounds in the whole place. Are flatwounds that rare? Why? What do you use? Why?

Bass - this is a recording question. Why is it, the more bass I put on the tone control on the instrument, the smaller the waveform is when I record? So I have to turn up the gain. Why should a bassier setting produce less signal?

Guitar - I've got a Monster bass cable (yeah, I know - Monster sucks cuz it's too expensive). One reason I bought it was because it claimed to have been designed for bass especially. When I asked the salesman what that was about, he smiled and talked for a while, but made no sense at all, so he didn't know. Okay, two questions: are 'bass cables' really better for bass? and second question: I can use the same cable for guitar, but would I do better to be using a 'guitar' cable?

As far as flat wounds are, they just are not very popular. I prefer round woulds but my fingers are used to them. Flat wounds limit your technique and sounds you can get on the bass, if you want to slap,pop or tap you can forget about using flat wounds. that is probably why not many companies make them anymore.

As far as your signal, I don't know. Are you using a compressor? At least you are compensating for getting a low signal, after all, all that matters is getting a good sound to your recording.

I use a monster bass cable and I cannot really telll the differnece in sound. I like monster cables because they are of good quality and if they break, the music stores willreplace them since they are guarenteed for life.

As far as using them for guitar I would try recording guitar with both kinds to see or hear if there really is a difference.

clif

[dobro]

Aw go on - I've got thirty dollars - does a guitar sound better through 'guitar' cables than through 'bass' cables?

[LocusLarsen]

I don't know about the difference in the Monster Jazz/Bass/Studio cables, but I can tell you one thing...They are the ONLY cable that I have yet to destroy. Let alone come unscrewed on me....knock knock

[Slackmaster2K]

The reason you get less signal when you crank up the bass on your guitar is because you're not really cranking anything, you're just attenuating higher frequencies. You would only be "cranking" if the tone controls were active.

Flatwounds are rare for both guitar and bass. A pack of the flatwounds I use on my acoustic are like $12, and they only carry about 3 brands of flats at the shop I go to. They have a very old hick sound to them, it's not popular anymore.

Monster is all about hype. Sometimes their hype is for real, sometimes it's bullshit. This case sounds like bullshit. Try using 3 or 4 different guitar cables and tell me how much difference you hear in your tone. It won't be near the difference as you might hear in say a mic cable. Yes, you can use that cable on your regular guitar. I use whatever guitar cables I happen to have within reach at the moment.

Slackmaster 2000

[Aaron Cheney]

Hear, hear!

Monster instrument cables are all hype. At a gig I'll use just about any cable that isn't shorting out. When recording, I like George L's.

Flatwounds are unpopular mostly becuase they sound dead from the moment you put them on. They are probably a big part of the reason you can't get a good signal from you bass.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com

[KaBudokan]

Well, I've read up on some cable issues lately, and one "expert" says that the main factor affecting tone is the capacitance of the cable. (The expert being Bill Lawrence - someone who knows more about guitars than say... me. )Many cables (including a lot of the more expensive ones) have a very high capacitance, which can adversely affect the high end of your sound.

His recommendation was that the total capacitance for the cable should not be over 250pf. George L cables are one of the few truly "low-capacitance" brands (and these will be under the pf target only in about 10' lengths). I haven't bought one since researching this stuff, but I probably will soon enough.

[Slackmaster2K]

But the length of the cable is going to have the greatest impact on capacitance. If you're just using the standard 10ft or shorter guitar cables it shouldn't be much of an issue. Neither guitars nor basses have much high end anyhow.

Slackmaster 2000

[KaBudokan]

You're definitely right, Slackmaster. I am doing one of the big "no-no's" of this board, by relaying info. that I don't have first-hand experience with.

I've heard people say that they can hear a difference when using a low-capacitance cable. I know Eric Johnson uses George L cables (and Duracell batteries, right! ).

There are many cables that have a capacitance of ~ 45pf/foot or more, which would cause problems even at a 10' length (if the cable capacitance truly does impact tone).

[Slackmaster2K]

Hey, I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong...but I've used a lot of cables over the years and haven't noticed much of a difference between any of them. Now I've always bought medium quality cables, never the bottom of the barrel stuff, and that might have something to do with it.

When I first tested a bunch of different mic cables I was suprised at how differently they sounded. I haven't had that same experience at all with guitar cables.

Slackmaster 2000

[KaBudokan]

I certainly am willing to accept I could be wrong, too. lol As I said, I haven't had a chance to experiment at all. One of these days I'll pick up a George L cable from one of the mail order places, as I haven't see one on the rack at the local GC.

I know that Bill Lawrence has made reference to how much of a difference the cable can have during several conversations with him. I do know that he is planning to (eventually) sell a low-capacitance cable that he developed a while back. In the meantime I have seen him point people to the George L cables and also one particular model of Belden cable.

I'm always a doubter when it comes to some of this stuff, but it's been a pretty popular topic of conversation over at the FIB forum (which is where the Bill Lawrence message board is). It is apparent from talking to Bill that he feels that paying a lot for cables doesn't mean they sound better. He makes reference to how Hendrix had a cheap cable he always used because it "sounded more alive."

Who knows?

[PFDarkside]

I would just like to clarify for the original poster...

As far as "tone" controls are concerned on passive basses (and guitars, too) all they do is reduce the treble of your instrument. Plug into an amp, play with your tone control at 10, then at 1. You really shouldn't hear any more bass, per say... just less treble. If you are rolling of more treble, then technically you have less signal, hence your swmaller waveform.

As far as cables go, use what you like. Make sure you have the shortest lead you need (longer lengths bleed off more high end). About the George L's, Aren't they the cables that you basically build yourself? I thought I saw something about them in a cord shootout in Guitar Player. Their connections also look the weakest of all the cords, but I think they also said they had the highest quality sound.

[LocusLarsen]

I use whatever cable doesn't unscrew at the ends. I fucking hate that. I have broken more cords from that than from anything else. Fender has some nice cables too.

From what I understand, every 10 feet looses 1 db of gain.

[dobro]

Slack - I tried out the flatwounds for two reasons - first, they're way easier on my nails. But the second reason's the more important one. I asked over at Prosound how engineers got the bass sound on old stuff like Rick Danko's bass and the bass player on Dylan's John Wesley Harding album. I love that bass sound - big, fat, soft at the edges, plop kind of sound. Engineers were getting a similar kind of big fat DOOF sound on Ringo Starr's kick as well. Anyway, a guy at Prosound suggested that flatwounds were probably part of that sound. He also mentioned a small but very good bass amp at a low volume miked with an excellent mic. I tried the flatwounds first because that was the cheapest part of the equation. LOL Anyway, I tried the flatwounds, and near as I can tell, although I like the sound, they haven't nudged my bass sound in the desired direction. Phooey.

[Slackmaster2K]

Dobro, I've never tried flatwounds on bass. I do use them on my old 30's Kalamazoo archtop though. When I first strung it with your average round acoustic strings, it just sounded sort of stale. When I threw some flatwounds on it, the sucker just came alive. It's got a very old hillbilly flavor to it, and I'm assuming that's what it's supposed to sound like....not exactly what I usually want, but a good hillbilly sound is better than a bad modern sound.

On an aside, that poor old guitar has developed quite the buzz, and I can't track it down....however, the buzz is really cool, and sounds like a very distant electric guitar! I'll have to record it before it gets worse.

Slackmaster 2000

[Aaron Cheney]

To clarify:
George L's are the ones you "build yourself". You buy any length of cable you want, and 2 ends. The ends have a threaded mechanism that you srew in once the cable is inserted, and it simultaneously locks the cable in place and pierces it to connect the circuit. Pretty neat, and perfect for pedal boards!

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com

[dobro]

Okay, I'll do up a song, and you do up the archtop pickin bit. You do, after all, play a bodaciously moving kinda guitar.

Hey, I get electric, you play the archtop.

[KaBudokan]

Originally posted by Aaron Cheney
To clarify:
George L's are the ones you "build yourself". You buy any length of cable you want, and 2 ends. The ends have a threaded mechanism that you srew in once the cable is inserted, and it simultaneously locks the cable in place and pierces it to connect the circuit. Pretty neat, and perfect for pedal boards!

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com

Yup - they're the same ones. They do also have premade ones at Musician's Friend, etc. Not a bad price. The solderless connectors are supposedly pretty good and also have a lower capacitance than most soldered ones. Again... who knows? lol

[Dan The Speakerman]

Hi Dobro!

I can address the bass issue a bit, as that's my main instrument.

Flatwounds are FAR from rare! They are made by most manufacturers and are still very popular with many bassists. Fender, LaBella, Pyramid, Ken Smith, Thomastik-Infeld, are just some of the better brands that offer great flatwounds.

I have three basses, and two are strung with flats. My Precision has Fender flats for that old-school thump, also great for 70's R&B and some funk, as well as THE ticket for classic rock covers from the 60's and 70's. NOT the ticket for slap/tap.

My other flatter is a fretless Jazz. This has Thomastik-Infeld (TI) Jazz Flats on it. These are unique in that they have a nearly roundwound type sound and liveliness, and they just get BETTER sounding the longer they're on the bass...it's not unusual for people to leave a set on for more than two years! These strings you CAN slap with good sound on.

My third bass is a Fender Roscoe Beck, and I like the OEM Fender roundwounds on this one.

What strings do I prefer; flats or rounds? Neither more than the other....just depends on the sound I'm looking for at the time. Flats DEFINITELY have their place, though!

Cheers,
Dan