tascam analog

[jimi]

i have a tascam analog 424 mkkgfhwri whatever the fuck its called ...basically it sounds like shit (i dont have any reverb or effects) is it better to just buy a new digital recorder 8 track or whatever ?? like will it make a difference in sound quality and all that shit ?

[sjjohnston]

If it sounds as bad as you say (realizing that my understanding of your choice of words may connote a stronger feeling than you intended) either: (i) it's broken, (ii) you're not using it correctly or (iii) what you're recording sounds that bad to start with.

If it's the first case, you can get it fixed or replaced under warranty if you bought it new. If you bought it used (or it's otherwise out of warranty), it may well be possible to have it repaired at a relatively small cost. If it's the second case, you can probably learn how to use it correctly. If it's the last case, your recording equipment isn't your problem, and putting some effort and resources elsewhere might be a good idea.

[jimi]

well tell me the best way to use this pioece of equipment sir ...id appreciate it
i dont have effects at all !!

[Sennheiser]

Effects have nothing to do with the quality of your tracking. That is something that is added at mixdown.

If you are talking about tape noise (hiss), leave your noise reduction on always and keep the meters out of the red except for transient peaks.

If you have the manual, read it. If not, contact TASCAM. They will be more than happy to send you one or you can download one free at their site. www.tascam.com. I believe your machine is on the list for free downloads.

If what you are recording sounds like shit, it will sound like shit on playback too.

[chessparov]

jimi, I have a Tascam similar to yours, the Tascam 244, and love it!
Although I also have other digital multitracks at home, it has a very nice warm sonic character. From an objective standpoint, the digitally based units have basically no hiss or wow and flutter.
They also have a more extended high frequency response range.
The dbx noise reduction in your unit, however, is very effective
at mitigating tape hiss.

On the other hand, every other format has their problems too.
Computers crash, their fans make noise, and the digital "studio in a box" isn't exempt from ever needing to go in for repair someday.
My 244 is from the early 80's and it could keep working for another 20 years.

Your 424 is quite capable of making fine demo level recordings.
You may want to get the rest of the signal chain lined up first,
and improve your recording skills, then consider if you still want to
keep it or not after you hear how well it can sound.
Make sure to clean it right after your recording sessions to take
any gunk off the recording heads per the owner's manual.

So...
What are you presently using as far as microphones, pre's, etc.?

Chris

[jimi]

all i have is a shure mic (vocal mic ) dont remember the model name but its a good sounding mic , i have the Tascam 4 Track..guitar, bass guitat, marshall amp, and thats it .
i dont have any effects or anything ...do u think that might be why im not getting a good sound ?

[bbbkeys]

Hey Jimi, the lack of effects are not the problem and even effects, used incorrectly, can make your recording a bad one.

You need to start your recording as cleanly as possible.

When you say that your recordings are crappy, what are you referring to? Are you referring to hissing, volume issues, track bleeding?

For better recording quality, do any of the following:

• turn the pitch control all the way to the fastest setting. You will use more tape and be able to fit less music on each tape, but the hissing will be reduced
• Use high bias tapes
• Use balanced 1/4 cables instead of unbalanced. Radio shack sells balanced cables.
• For vocals use an Omnidirectional mic. I find that Cardioid mics cause more hissing on the track
• Make sure your tracks do not bleed onto other tracks. Make good use the Taoe Cue functions and when recording tracks, do not use the Tape recording input settings. Turn those tracks off and use your tape cue knobs to set those already recorded tracks.
• Do not bounce. Bouncing stinks on a 4 or 8 track.

I hope this helps,
Bruce Chambers
http://www.mp3.com/brucechambers3

[chessparov]

bbb, I also generally prefer omni directional microphones for vocals, however, as you know, the omni picks up much more of a
room. And in a domestic setup that doesn't usually keep ambient noise out as well as a directional microphone.

jimi, if your budget permits, you may want to get a good outboard
compressor, like the Fmr. Audio RNC. It costs under $200, and you can get it at www.mercenary.com
It'll help keep your signal levels on a more even keel for one thing.
As far as reverb, you could either find a nice sounding room to record in (cheaper!), or get an outboard reverb and/or effects unit
like a Lexicon, Roland, or TC. (some under $300)
If you're finicky, like me, on how your voice sounds, you could get a good mic pre like the Studio Projects VTB-1 (around $180).

bbb's advice is well taken, in fact you'll get much better recordings by studying basic sound engineering.
If you go to www.studiocovers.com there's plenty of info to help you. Just be patient, it's a lot of fun!

Chris

[A Reel Person]

when it comes to sound quality, and 'sounds like shit' may be easy to say, but doesn't mean anything specific.

What is it that sounds like shit?
-Distortion? [Check the TRIM section and mic placement].
-Weaknesss or lack of fullness of the sound? [Check live sound, mic position, EQ, high tape speed, and record a strong level to tape. Also check for TYPE II tapes].
-Lack of proper ambience? [Check live sound, signal chain, EQ and mic placement].

A 424mkWTF should be able to record a fairly decent sounding 4-track demo. However, there is some technique involved in getting the most out of 4-track cassette, which involves first getting good live sound, good mic placement, some line sources, and a small/moderate amount of EQ to try to print the best sounding signal to tape as possible.

In general, 4-track cassette Portastudio is an easy and hearty format. It's hard to say what to recommend, unless you define the problem your having in a little more detail.

[jimi]

i think my problem is that i need some kind of crash 101 course in recording then i can improvise, however i also listen to bands like radiohead, U2, pearl jam, sheryl crow ..etc...and every instrument has its own like not sound but whatever , you can hear clearly every sound intelligently and thats what im comparing my recording to , maybe thats a problem by itself, however i still dont get half a decent sound compared to cds or just cds of music
damn it gets me depressed thinking about this too much ..

[Blue Bear Sound]

A 4-track portastudio is a 4-track portastudio -- it's NEVER going to give you pro results - period. Use it to cut your teeth on and get your skills going.......... crawl before you walk, walk before running....

It's also not only about the gear -- engineering skills account for a large portion of the end result. Once your skills improve you will start to outgrow it and you upgrade to better gear as your ears develop.

[A Reel Person]

or 24 track, in a 'real' studio, and not somebody's living room or bedroom. The cassette 4-track home recording will never sound like a 1"-16-track or a 2"-24-track from a legitimate studio, so maybe your comparing apples to oranges.

[Sennheiser]

For a visual comparison:

---- Your tape width 1/8"

---------------- My tape width 1/2"

-------------------------------- A Reel Person's tape width 1".

---------------------------------------------------------------- 24 track tape width 2".


Not to scale, but relative size is correct.

There is just not enough room on your tape to cram the magnetic information onto, that you can with a larger format. That is why it will never sound more than it is. You can make decent demo tapes with a Porta. I did it for nearly as long as you've been on this Earth before I moved up.

Don't expect too much from your machine or you will be sorely disappointed. Use it as a learning tool. When you've paid your dues on it and can get a consistant sounding, decent quality mix, you'll be ready for bigger and better.

You'd be surprised at what you can milk out of these machines after you learn the ropes. Don't give up.

[rbbyrd]

O.K., I'll jump in now. I've been reading this forum for about 2 weeks. I'm just starting out myself. I gathered quite a bit of useful info, but I don't quite know where to put the info yet, meaning I've gotten some answers, but I really don't know the questions. (Did that make sense??)

Anyway, I bought a 488 MkII off ebay, but it didn't have a user manual. I expect to get that from Tascam next week: I sent them the money already. I've gotten 2 SM57s and a SM58. For the time being, I plan on using just a standard, off-the-shelf stereo cassette deck for mixdown. I've also learned that a guitar effects processor ain't gonna work like I thought. (Hoped). I'm not expecting to become rich and famous out of my living room. I just want to play with some toys.

I was somewhat of a working musician about 20 years ago, (I'm dating myself); average, at best. I didn't too much enjoy those "missed-meal cramps". So now, the kids are out of the house, the Harley's rebuilt....and here we go!!!!

Jimi, I'm right there with ya, bro. I don't have a clue of what I'm doing yet, but everything improves with time. I've already tried the "Liquid Plumber" approach, where I plugged a couple of things in, just to see if they would work. Well, they kinda worked, but guess what it sounded like??? Yup!! 12 watts of fecal matter!!! But, I learned a couple of things. The biggest thing I've learned so far is...I really need that user manual!!!! So, I have to be patient for a few more days.

Although it may be a bit naieve in today's technologically amazing world, I mentioned to a friend of mine, just yesterday, something I read in a book about multi-track recording...."George Martin and The Beatles did Sgt. Pepper's on a 4 track machine".

For reference, I have a '65 Strat, a '77 Les Paul Standard, and a mid 70's Twin Reverb, and a (maybe) early '80s Fender acoustic, in addition to what I mentioned above. I've borrowed a Squire bass from a friend which will have to do for now. I've also got a Fender "Hot" little amp (about 20W, I think) that my bride got for me for Christmas a few years ago. She's a dear...I hope she stays that way in the future when I need to buy new toys!

I will eventually get a decent effects machine, and probably a drum machine, since I've tried to play drums before, and it wasn't pretty. I'm sure there will be other "absolutely necessary" items!

I apologise for being so long winded on my first post. I look forward to having some semi-intelligent questions. Give me some time. From what I've read in the past couple of weeks, there's a bunch of great folks on this BBS. Thanks in advance.

Jimi, keep the faith, bro. We'll get it. Education is a good thang!! If you want to use my first recording attempt as an example, one would actually have to TRY to make it sound any worse!!!!!

RB Byrd

[Sennheiser]

Welcome aboard Analog Airlines rbbyrd. Just take a seat anywhere, it's pretty much like Southwest. Prop up your feet and have fun with it. Feel free to move about the cabin when you get that owners manual.

They say real men don't read instructions. Bullshit. You're missing out on half the features of a product if you don't these days.

I've had been recording with Portastudios for a long, long time before changing formats. I'm here to tell ya, you can get a decent recording out of these boxes. Nothing you're going to hear on the top 40 radio show, but it won't hurt your ears to listen to either.
As a matter of fact, some of the stuff I did sounded pretty damn good for the format it was recorded on. I started with a ROSS 4-track if that means anything to you. I went through two more before a bought a 488MKII. Had that for two months and recorded one song. Sold it and bought a TASCAM 38-8 and never looked back.

Sounds like you have a bit more patients and understanding of this format than our other new analog head on the board. However, that Beatles album was recorded on a 1" four-track machine running at, I think 15IPS, maybe 30IPS. Big difference in four-track machines there. But like I said before, you can make decent demo's on a four-track. If you couldn't, I don't think TASCAM would still be selling them. And that day may soon end as well.

I just don't understand why every manufacturer is discontinuing their analog decks. Not everuone wants to sit at a computer or DAW and make or mix music. I guess we're outnumbered in this day and age. They have money to make and that's where the company engineers are directed to go. Not what really matters to that smattering of customers that still use tape.

Well, glad I got that off o' me chest. Anyway, welcome to the board.

[rbbyrd]

Thanks, mayn!!

As Ahhnold sez: " I'll be back!!".

RB Byrd

[Sennheiser]

Edited to say that I hadn't looked at your profile before I posted that shit about Analog Airlines and Southwest. Hell of a coincidence.

Wow. Do you work ARTCC or Approach and Departure? Tower controller maybe?

Been flying for a little over ten years now. My ex-brother in law was ARTCC KCC Garden City sector after he was discharged.

I fly out of CPS and SAR. Mostly SAR because it's close to home and the rates are cheap.

So where ya at?

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by rbbyrd
I mentioned to a friend of mine, just yesterday, something I read in a book about multi-track recording...."George Martin and The Beatles did Sgt. Pepper's on a 4 track machine".

Well that's true enough, but the 4-track machine used was high-end... apples and oranges in comparison to a PortaStudio....

[A Reel Person]

but [I think] people cite Sgt. Pepper because it gives you a gauge of the engineering that went into squeezing those arrangements onto 4-tracks.

[IMO] The realistic experienced person doesn't expect cassette to sound as big as 1", but some newbies do, and sometimes they have to have their expectations reset. The cassette 4-track is a great format to get your feet wet and learn your recording chops. Cassette can sound good, but any larger analog format would sound better, and that's just common sense.

Comparing a cassette to 1" tape is definitely apple/oranges. I think everyone would agree on that.

[mixmkr]

Originally posted by A Reel Person
but [I think] people cite Sgt. Pepper because it gives you a gauge of the engineering that went into squeezing those arrangements onto 4-tracks.

[

one of the more "intelligent" answers lately around here, that understands the questions.

I've heard of them having a pair of 4 tracks running in tandem, somehow..... hit 'play' at the same time?

[chessparov]

I restrained myself from mentioning Springsteen's "Nebraska"-
until now! Did pretty good (sold millions) for a "cassette" album.

Seriously, I think a 424 type portastudio is "good enough" to
indicate songwriting and/or performance talent to a competent
publisher or record producer. The when you're signed, use the 2"
reel to reel for the record.

BTW, 30 ips wasn't widely used until the early 70's for rock recordings, so Sgt. Pepper was at 15 ips.
A number of engineers prefer 15 ips on rock recordings due to the fuller bottom end versus 30 ips.

Chris

[rbbyrd]

Originally posted by Sennheiser
Edited to say that I hadn't looked at your profile before I posted that shit about Analog Airlines and Southwest. Hell of a coincidence.

I fly out of CPS and SAR. Mostly SAR because it's close to home and the rates are cheap.

So where ya at?

No kidding, what a co-in-ki-dink!!!!

I work at DFW Tracon, a laff a minute! Sorry, I'm not familiar with CPS or SAR...it must be more than 45 miles away from DFW! If you're ever in the area, we'll have to hook up....I've been a'vectoring here for about 10 years, "Calling approach, say again, I was on a landline!!"

My Beatles/Sgt. Pepper comment drew some very educational responses, from my point of view. Again, I'm just starting out with this stuff, and every little snippet is something new, new information. The more, the better! I'm forcing myself, reluctantly, not to play with the machine until I get my manual. But, I don't think that will last very long.

I understand that a cassette format will not yeild, generally, marketable results. That's fine, I'm not looking to market. I just want to play with some toys. As a guitar player, sounds, and putting them together seems rather intriguing to me, and I just want to see what happens.

Anyway, it's nice to see that knowledgeable folks read and respond to the NEWBIE thread. Thanks in advance, and I'll probably be back here 2 days after I get my user manual!!!

With a million questions!!!!

See y'all!

RB Byrd

[Sennheiser]

CPS is in Cahokia, Illinois. St. Louis Downtown Parks Airport

SAR is in Sparta, Illinois. Little bitty. NDB approach is all they have.

[pjpjpj]

Jimi,
go to your local bookstore (barnes and noble - borders ) and get the tape op book .. by larry crane.... it will walk you through 4 tracking and give you all kinds of practical info all the way through the recording process as well as keep you informed on other recording options .......tapeop.com

right now you can get 6 free issues of their mag if you sign up online at tapeop.com ..this should be a really good introduction for you.
pj